charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1"=
>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Oldest in ring:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>From a very quick look in the CCC Preserva=
tion=20
Lists we have:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Bradwell, Bucks 1 & 2 of 6 circa=
1297 by=20
Michael Wymbis, London</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>GAD</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LE=
FT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>Fro=
m:</B>=20
<A title=3Dc.j.pickford@t... href=3D"mailto:c.j.pickford@t...=
">Chris=20
Pickford</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dbellhistorians@yahoogroups.com=20
href=3D"mailto:bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com">bellhistorians@yahoogroups=
.com</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, May 21, 2002 7:43 A=
M</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Bell Historians] Old=
est=20
Bells</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The problem with Mike's questions is tha=
t they=20
assume one has firm dates for things. In reality we often don't! =20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Certainly the dating of fittings is ofte=
n highly=20
circumstantial or impressionistic</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have believed for a long while that th=
e whole=20
question of dating mediaeval bells - there are virtually no certainties o=
f=20
date or attribution - needs a radical rethink and a fresh overview. =
The=20
"history books" were largely written on the basis of lettering and=20
inscriptions, without regard to bell shape and characteristics. Nam=
ed=20
founders are linked to existing bells on the vaguest and loosest of=20
suppositions - i.e. we think this bell is of c.1480. A founder called xxx=
is=20
mentioned in a document of 1465 so he probably cast it. </FONT></DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>But, just a couple of offerings to the=20
debate:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Oldest bell in a ringing peal: The 4th a=
t Halford=20
(Warwicks) of c.1320 must be in the frame</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Oldest ring: Smithfield (c.1510) yes, bu=
t=20
St.Lawrence Ipswich has five mediaevals which are older</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Contemporary fittings: Try East Carlton,=
=20
Northants - fittings of 1750s (bells), possibly replaced when the church =
was=20
rebuilt in 1788 (I think I favour the earlier date) - wheels renewed, but=
=20
otherwise original. [Ashow fittings probably 1793]</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>CP</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-=
LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>F=
rom:</B>=20
<A title=3Dmike@m...=20
href=3D"mailto:mike@m...">mikechester_uk</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dbellhistorians@yahoogroups.com=20
href=3D"mailto:bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com">bellhistorians@yahoogrou=
ps.com</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, May 21, 2002 12:2=
1=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Bell Historians] Oldes=
t=20
Bells</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></F=
ONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><BR></D=
IV><TT>An old=20
chestnut, I know.<BR><BR>But, on a long journey back from ringing in Wa=
les,=20
Bill H - <BR>Llanfeugan are a "Premier League" ring of 8, Taylors 1921(=
?) if=20
<BR>memory serves me right, record them just in case - superb! <BR><BR>=
What=20
is<BR><BR>a) the oldest bell in a ringing peal<BR><BR>b) the oldest rin=
g -=20
Smithfield was the one that came to mind<BR><BR>c) the oldest ringable =
ring=20
on contemporary fittings<BR><BR>Any offers?<BR><BR>Let's start with Ash=
ow=20
for c) early C18 - though the wheels look <BR>younger admittedly<BR><BR=
>Mike=20
Chester<BR><BR></TT><BR><BR><TT>This message was sent to you via the Be=
ll=20
Historians' Mailing List. To unsubscribe from the list send an email to=
=20
bellhistorians-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<BR><BR></TT><BR><BR><TT>Your=
use=20
of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <A=20
href=3D"http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms of Service</A>.=
</TT>=20
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><TT>This message was sent to you via the Bell Hist=
orians'=20
Mailing List. To unsubscribe from the list send an email to=20
bellhistorians-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<BR><BR></TT><BR><BR><TT>Your u=
se of=20
Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <A=20
href=3D"http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms of Service</A>.</=
TT>=20
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>