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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ashbourne Derbyshire is 13.1.21 as weighed=
by=20
Taylors on 21.1.1896. </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LE=
FT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>Fro=
m:</B>=20
<A title=3DDovemaster@c...=20
href=3D"mailto:Dovemaster@c...">JohnBaldwin</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dbellhistorians@yahoogroups.com=20
href=3D"mailto:Bellhistorians@Yahoogroups. Com">Bellhistorians@Yahoogroup=
s.=20
Com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=3Dr.johnston@bristol.=
ac.uk=20
href=3D"mailto:r.johnston@b...">Ron Johnston</A> ; <A=20
title=3Dtgpett@l... href=3D"mailto:tgpett@l...">Tim Pett</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, September 19, 2002=
3:28=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Bell Historians] Dove=20
inexactitudes</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3DArial>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"mso-pagination: none; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN lang=3D=
EN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-ansi-language: EN-US">R=
ecently,=20
we have been concerned that there are certain circumstances where "local =
wish"=20
over what is shown for an entry in <STRONG><EM>Dove</EM></STRONG> (on-lin=
e,=20
and therefore in the next printed edition) has actually made that=20
entry become "less accurate".<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =
;=20
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"mso-pagination: none; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN lang=3D=
EN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-ansi-language: EN-US">A=
case=20
in point is Abingdon S Helen, where the previously "exact" weight of 20-1=
-6=20
(as per <I>Berks</I>, p4, the weight when canons were still present, and =
as=20
appeared in <I><STRONG>Dove</STRONG></I>, editions 1 to 3) became shown i=
n=20
editions 4 to 9 as the "approximate" value of 19=BDcwt consequent upon th=
eir=20
removal.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>However, Tim Pett=
=20
earlier this year asked for the previous exact figure to be re-instated o=
n the=20
grounds that 19=BDcwt was nothing more than a "guesstimate" and it could =
equally=20
well be 20cwt, 19=BEcwt, or even 19=BCcwt, the bell not having been rewei=
ghed (nor=20
the removed metal weighed) at the time of alteration - to anyone's presen=
t=20
knowledge.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></SP=
AN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"mso-pagination: none; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><I><SPAN lang=
=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-ansi-language: EN-US">[=
I felt=20
I could not (at that stage anyway) refuse the request even though in my v=
iew=20
it "decreases" the accuracy of <STRONG>Dove</STRONG> unnecessarily simply=
=20
because that is the one weight it cannot be!. It MAY have been the r=
esult=20
of a too rigid interpretation (by Tim) of our deference to "local wish" a=
bout=20
what appears in an entry - and on which petard, I felt myself to be well =
and=20
truly hoisted!<o:p></o:p></SPAN></I></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"mso-pagination: none; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><EM><SPAN lan=
g=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-ansi-language: EN-US">T=
he=20
deference to "local preference" however had been meant primarily in two o=
ther=20
instances, namely <o:p></o:p></SPAN></EM></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"mso-pagination: none; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><FONT=20
size=3D2><SPAN><EM>(1) whether the placename (</EM>ie<EM>, that which is =
used=20
for positioning) should be that of a major conurbation (with the suburb a=
s a=20
"secondary name") or that of the suburb itself (</EM>eg, <EM>should Whitc=
hurch=20
appear as such, or should it appear as "Cardiff,.... Whitchurch") or, ind=
eed=20
any other name (such as St Samson becoming Golant, but Dyfrryn</EM>=20
<STRONG>not</STRONG><I><STRONG> </STRONG>becoming Bryncoch)<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>- something about which we had =
invited=20
submission, see RW2000, p683; and <o:p></o:p></I></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"mso-pagination: none; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><I><SPAN lang=
=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-ansi-language: EN-US">(=
2)=20
whether a ring should be shown as "unringable" when strictly that may not=
be=20
the case but requests for ringing were to be discouraged for entirely loc=
al,=20
good, and hopefully temporary reason.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&n=
bsp;=20
</SPAN>I do NOT wish, at this juncture to be sidetracked by either of tho=
se=20
particular issues, please!<o:p></o:p></SPAN></I></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"mso-pagination: none; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><I><SPAN lang=
=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-ansi-language: EN-US">T=
o=20
clarify better what we meant about "local preference", the section on=20
</SPAN></I><B><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-ansi-language: EN-US">A=
ccuracy</SPAN></B><I><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-ansi-language: EN-US"> =
has now=20
been modified (and repositioned) in the on-line description webpage which=
I=20
suggest you re-visit if you haven't happened to read it in the last =
day=20
or so.]<o:p></o:p></SPAN></I></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"mso-pagination: none; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN lang=3D=
EN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-ansi-language: EN-US">O=
ne way=20
of lessening the inaccuracy, and even possibly thereby "flushing out" som=
e=20
real definitive knowledge, is to show such entries as the following=20
example:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN: 5pt 0in; mso-pagination: none; mso-layout-grid-align: no=
ne"><FONT=20
size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"><B><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Abingdon</SPAN></B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11=
pt">,=20
Oxon, S Helen, <B>10</B>, <20-1-6 in Eflat.<I> <B>-Tue</B>=20
SU497967</I><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN: 5pt 0in; mso-pagination: none; mso-layout-grid-align: no=
ne"><I><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">with the following addition=
to=20
description page at the place where tenor weight is described:</SPAN></I>=
<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN: 5pt 0in; mso-pagination: none; mso-layout-grid-align: no=
ne"><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">"The < symbol is used as=
a=20
prefix to an exact weight where it is known that subsequent work (<I>eg,<=
/I>=20
the removal of the canons) has reduced the weight of the tenor. This is f=
elt=20
to be preferable to showing an approximate weight (which may simply be an=
=20
estimate)."</SPAN><FONT size=3D2> </FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"mso-pagination: none; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN lang=3D=
EN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-ansi-language: EN-US">I=
n my=20
opinion (and that of others I have sounded out) this presentation (which =
I=20
willingly acknowledge had been suggested to us several years ago now)=20
recognises that the tenor weight <B>must</B> be less than 20-1-6 (assumin=
g=20
that that figure was right in the first place) but also that 20-1-6 is "t=
he=20
best that we currently have at our disposal".<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>In the interests of providing t=
he most=20
accurate possible information within <I><STRONG>Dove</STRONG></I>, we are=
now=20
thinking of making this slight presentational change in what I guess will=
=20
probably be no more than 25 cases out of just over 6000=20
entries.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"mso-pagination: none; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN lang=3D=
EN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-ansi-language: EN-US">W=
e would=20
like to hear (either "on list" or privately, via Dovemaster@c...)=
any=20
opinions that there may be (please, please restrict it to this one issue)=
both=20
on that method of presentation, in the short term within the on-line=
=20
version and in the longer term within the next printed edition, and on th=
e=20
associated explanation.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Ro=
n and I=20
will then make a decision.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =20
</SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"mso-pagination: none; mso-layout-grid-align: none"><SPAN lang=3D=
EN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-ansi-language: EN-US"><=
SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"></SPAN>It would further help if you know pers=
onally=20
(and without fear of contradiction) - and will let us know full details -=
of=20
other cases where previously accurate tenor weights, whether or not =
now=20
shown approximately, would benefit from a modified presentation as indica=
ted=20
above. In this way, even should we decide to make no immediate chang=
e in=20
presentation, such details <U>will</U> be recorded within the database fo=
r=20
future reference.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"mso-pagination: none; mso-layout-grid-align=
: none"=20
align=3Dleft><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-ansi-language: EN-US">I=
n=20
advance, thank you for any comments you feel inclined to make.</SPAN=
></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"mso-pagination: none; mso-layout-grid-align=
: none"=20
align=3Dleft><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-ansi-language: EN-US">J=
ohn=20
Baldwin</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>(029) 2055=20
4457<BR></P></FONT><BR><BR><TT>This=20
message was sent to you via the Bell Historians' Mailing List. To unsubsc=
ribe=20
from the list send an email to=20
bellhistorians-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<BR><BR></TT><BR><BR><TT>Your u=
se of=20
Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <A=20
href=3D"http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms of Service</A>.</=
TT>=20
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