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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks, George - the reputable source need=
ed to=20
provide definitive data! So, now we know Meneeley recast the original tenor=
=20
we're back to 25 cwt approx (instead of the 1797 weight) - unless the Menee=
ley=20
records provide more accurate information</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Carl has queried the fractions in the diam=
eters of=20
the 1797 ring. For anyone else whose machine scrambles fractions in e-mails=
, the=20
diameters (in inches) are/were 1 32.25, 2 33.5, 3 35.25 and 7 47.25. =
The=20
bells were of course by Thomas Mears I, 1797 - with recasting by C & G =
Mears=20
in 1845.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I don't have details of the 1849 semitone,=
but now=20
I have the date I'll look it up some time</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Chris</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LE=
FT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>Fro=
m:</B>=20
<A title=3DGeorge@d...=20
href=3D"mailto:George@d...">George Dawson</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dbellhistorians@yahoogroups.com=20
href=3D"mailto:bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com">bellhistorians@yahoogroups=
.com</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, December 29, 2002 7:=
59=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Bell Historians] Tri=
nity=20
Church New York</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FON=
T><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT fac=
e=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The tenor was recast by Meneeley & C=
o in 1848=20
& is 53" in diameter, no weight. The rest of the bells are as below. =
The=20
chime bells are an extra treble (1 of 9!) by Meneeley 1909, and a flat se=
cond=20
of 8 by C & G Mears 1849.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>GAD</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-=
LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>F=
rom:</B>=20
<A title=3Dc.j.pickford@t... href=3D"mailto:c.j.pickford@t...=
om">Chris=20
Pickford</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dbellhistorians@yahoogroups.com=20
href=3D"mailto:bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com">bellhistorians@yahoogrou=
ps.com</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, December 29, 2002 =
6:55=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Bell Historians] T=
rinity=20
Church New York</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The bells were listed in earlier editi=
ons of=20
"Dove" as a 25 cwt 8, unringable. I submitted the tenor weight as=
the=20
bell referred to in the Whitechapel records is almost certainly - witho=
ut=20
actually seeing it of having details from a reputable source I can't sa=
y any=20
more definitely than that - the original bell of 1797 of=20
24-3-25.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The Whitechapel records actually provi=
de the=20
following details:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB=20
style=3D"LETTER-SPACING: -0.15pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">Peals boo=
k, 1797=20
=96 1 32</SPAN><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB=20
style=3D"LETTER-SPACING: -0.15pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 8.0pt">=BC=94</SP=
AN><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-GB style=3D"LETTER-SPACING: -0.15pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0=
pt">=20
7-0-3, 2 33=BD=94 7-0-15, 3 35</SPAN><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB=20
style=3D"LETTER-SPACING: -0.15pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 8.0pt">=BC=94</SP=
AN><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-GB style=3D"LETTER-SPACING: -0.15pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0=
pt">=20
8-2-26, 4 38=94 9-3-8, 5 41=94 12-1-18, 6 43=94 13-2-21, 7 47</SPAN><SP=
AN=20
lang=3DEN-GB=20
style=3D"LETTER-SPACING: -0.15pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 8.0pt">=BC=94</SP=
AN><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-GB style=3D"LETTER-SPACING: -0.15pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0=
pt">=20
18-1-2, 8 53=94 24-3-25 and note =93recast 1, 2, 4 and 7, Sept 1845=94<=
/SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB=20
style=3D"LETTER-SPACING: -0.15pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"><FONT fac=
e=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB=20
style=3D"LETTER-SPACING: -0.15pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">Daybook 2=
0 Sept.=20
1845 =96 Trinity Church, New York. Recast bells 7-1-4, 6-3-9, 9-1-6, 18=
-0-10=20
=A3271.3.10, clappers =A34, stocks wheels etc =A332, cases & packin=
g &=20
shipping charges =A35.18.6, total =A3313.2.4</SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB=20
style=3D"LETTER-SPACING: -0.15pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"><FONT fac=
e=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN lang=3DEN-GB=20
style=3D"LETTER-SPACING: -0.15pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"><o:p></o:=
p></SPAN><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>The only other information I have comes from an a=
ccount=20
(and photograph) of a visit to the tower by various English ringers in =
1991=20
(RW 1991 p.1210). This states that there are eight bells hung in a wood=
en=20
frame with ringing headstocks, bearings and clappers (but minus the whe=
els)=20
and two more bells hung for chiming. </FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Sounds to me like an "unringable eight" according to the usual=
=20
definitions (i.e. bells still hung on derelict ringing fittings) rather=
than=20
a chime, plus - of course - two extras.</FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3DArial s=
ize=3D2>Chris=20
P</FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">----- Original Messa=
ge=20
----</P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDE=
R-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B=
>From:</B>=20
<A title=3DDovemaster@c...=20
href=3D"mailto:Dovemaster@c...">JohnBaldwin</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dbellhistorians@yahoogroups.com=20
href=3D"mailto:bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com">bellhistorians@yahoogr=
oups.com</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, December 29, 200=
2 5:32=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Bell Historians]=
=20
Trinity Church New York</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT><BR></DIV><TT>I have now searched my records and find=
that=20
it was Chris Pickford who<BR>supplied that tenor weight of 24-3-25 in=
D in=20
a (snail-mail) letter to me<BR>dated 29 June 1999, along with a numbe=
r of=20
other suggested alterations which<BR>had previously been submitted to=
Ron=20
Dove in November 1993. There is a "not<BR>necessarily precise"=
=20
(according to Chris) comment alongside this entry,<BR>saying : "Weigh=
t of=20
1797".<BR><BR>Perhaps Chris can shed further light on the background =
of=20
his findings, or<BR>else someone (? Michael) could ask Andrew Wilby a=
bout=20
the letter received<BR>from Owen Burdwick, referred to in the said RW=
=20
article on p970 of 2001.<BR><BR>It looks from that article, now, that=
I=20
should remove the entry from Dove!<BR><BR>John Baldwin<BR>(029) 2055=
=20
4457<BR><BR><BR>> -----Original Message-----<BR>> From: jimhedg=
cock=20
<jameshedgcock@h...><BR>>=20
[mailto:jameshedgcock@h...]<BR>> Sent: 28 December 2002=20
23:55<BR>> To: bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com<BR>> Subject: [Be=
ll=20
Historians] Trinity Church New York<BR>><BR>><BR>> 'Dove' li=
sts=20
an eight 24-3-25 in D. I remember after 9/11 an article<BR>>=
in=20
RW saying there were ten bells in the tower tenor 32cwt. Can<BR>>=
=20
anyone explain the differences?<BR>><BR>><BR>> This message =
was=20
sent to you via the Bell Historians' Mailing<BR>> List. To unsubsc=
ribe=20
from the list send an email to<BR>>=20
bellhistorians-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR=
>>=20
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to <A=20
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message was sent to you via the Bell Historians' Mailing List. To=20
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ur=20
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>.</TT>=20
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><TT>This message was sent to you via the Bell=20
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