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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>For what it's worth, the Meneeley list giv=
es the=20
weight of the 1909 bell as 383 lbs - which makes it 3-1-19 if standard=20
conversion rules apply</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>No information on the 1848 tenor from that=
=20
source</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>CP</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LE=
FT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>Fro=
m:</B>=20
<A title=3Dnickwbowden@f... href=3D"mailto:nickwbowden@f...">=
Nick=20
Bowden</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
title=3Dbellhistorians@yahoogroups.com=20
href=3D"mailto:bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com">bellhistorians@yahoogroups=
.com</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, December 29, 2002 10=
:04=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Bell Historians] Tri=
nity=20
Church New York</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><TT>I have an idea the exact weight of the Meneeley bell i=
s=20
27-2-1. Perhaps Dave<BR>Cawley can confirm this?<BR>Nick<BR><BR>----- Ori=
ginal=20
Message -----<BR>From: Chris Pickford<BR>To: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com">bellhistorians@yahoogroups=
.com</A><BR>Cc:=20
Carl S Zimmerman<BR>Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 9:24 PM<BR>Subject: R=
e:=20
[Bell Historians] Trinity Church New York<BR><BR><BR>Thanks, George - the=
=20
reputable source needed to provide definitive data! So,<BR>now we know=20
Meneeley recast the original tenor we're back to 25 cwt approx<BR>(instea=
d of=20
the 1797 weight) - unless the Meneeley records provide more<BR>accurate=20
information<BR><BR>Carl has queried the fractions in the diameters of the=
1797=20
ring. For anyone<BR>else whose machine scrambles fractions in e-mails, th=
e=20
diameters (in inches)<BR>are/were 1 32.25, 2 33.5, 3 35.25 and 7 47.25.&n=
bsp;=20
The bells were of course by<BR>Thomas Mears I, 1797 - with recasting by C=
=20
& G Mears in 1845.<BR><BR>I don't have details of the 1849 semitone, =
but=20
now I have the date I'll look<BR>it up some time<BR><BR>Chris<BR>-----=20
Original Message -----<BR>From: George Dawson<BR>To:=20
bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com<BR>Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 7:59=20
PM<BR>Subject: Re: [Bell Historians] Trinity Church New York<BR><BR><BR>T=
he=20
tenor was recast by Meneeley & Co in 1848 & is 53" in diameter,=20
no<BR>weight. The rest of the bells are as below. The chime bells are an=
=20
extra<BR>treble (1 of 9!) by Meneeley 1909, and a flat second of 8 by C &=
amp;=20
G Mears<BR>1849.<BR><BR>GAD<BR>----- Original Message -----<BR>From: Chri=
s=20
Pickford<BR>To: bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com<BR>Sent: Sunday, December =
29,=20
2002 6:55 PM<BR>Subject: Re: [Bell Historians] Trinity Church New=20
York<BR><BR><BR>The bells were listed in earlier editions of "Dove" as a =
25=20
cwt 8,<BR>unringable. I submitted the tenor weight as the bell refe=
rred=20
to in the<BR>Whitechapel records is almost certainly - without actually s=
eeing=20
it of<BR>having details from a reputable source I can't say any more=20
definitely than<BR>that - the original bell of 1797 of 24-3-25.<BR><BR>Th=
e=20
Whitechapel records actually provide the following details:<BR><BR>Peals =
book,=20
1797 - 1 32=BC" 7-0-3, 2 33=BD" 7-0-15, 3 35=BC" 8-2-26, 4 38" 9-3-8,<BR>=
5 41"=20
12-1-18, 6 43" 13-2-21, 7 47=BC" 18-1-2, 8 53" 24-3-25 and note "recast<B=
R>1, 2,=20
4 and 7, Sept 1845"<BR><BR>Daybook 20 Sept. 1845 - Trinity Church, New Yo=
rk.=20
Recast bells 7-1-4, 6-3-9,<BR>9-1-6, 18-0-10 =A3271.3.10, clappers =A34, =
stocks=20
wheels etc =A332, cases &<BR>packing & shipping charges =A35.18.6=
, total=20
=A3313.2.4<BR><BR>The only other information I have comes from an account=
(and=20
photograph) of<BR>a visit to the tower by various English ringers in 1991=
(RW=20
1991 p.1210).<BR>This states that there are eight bells hung in a wooden =
frame=20
with ringing<BR>headstocks, bearings and clappers (but minus the wheels) =
and=20
two more bells<BR>hung for chiming.<BR><BR>Sounds to me like an "unringab=
le=20
eight" according to the usual definitions<BR>(i.e. bells still hung on=20
derelict ringing fittings) rather than a chime,<BR>plus - of course - two=
=20
extras.<BR><BR>Chris P<BR><BR>----- Original Message ----<BR><BR>-<BR>Fro=
m:=20
JohnBaldwin<BR>To: bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com<BR>Sent: Sunday, Decemb=
er=20
29, 2002 5:32 PM<BR>Subject: RE: [Bell Historians] Trinity Church New=20
York<BR><BR><BR>I have now searched my records and find that it was Chris=
=20
Pickford who<BR>supplied that tenor weight of 24-3-25 in D in a (snail-ma=
il)=20
letter to me<BR>dated 29 June 1999, along with a number of other suggeste=
d=20
alterations which<BR>had previously been submitted to Ron Dove in Novembe=
r=20
1993. There is a "not<BR>necessarily precise" (according to Chris)=
=20
comment alongside this entry,<BR>saying : "Weight of 1797".<BR><BR>Perhap=
s=20
Chris can shed further light on the background of his findings, or<BR>els=
e=20
someone (? Michael) could ask Andrew Wilby about the letter received<BR>f=
rom=20
Owen Burdwick, referred to in the said RW article on p970 of 2001.<BR><BR=
>It=20
looks from that article, now, that I should remove the entry from=20
Dove!<BR><BR>John Baldwin<BR>(029) 2055 4457<BR><BR><BR>> -----Origina=
l=20
Message-----<BR>> From: jimhedgcock=20
<jameshedgcock@h...><BR>>=20
[mailto:jameshedgcock@h...]<BR>> Sent: 28 December 2002=20
23:55<BR>> To: bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com<BR>> Subject: [Bell=20
Historians] Trinity Church New York<BR>><BR>><BR>> 'Dove' lists =
an=20
eight 24-3-25 in D. I remember after 9/11 an article<BR>> in RW=
=20
saying there were ten bells in the tower tenor 32cwt. Can<BR>> anyone=
=20
explain the differences?<BR>><BR><BR><BR></TT><BR><TT>This message was=
sent=20
to you via the Bell Historians' Mailing List. To unsubscribe from the lis=
t=20
send an email to=20
bellhistorians-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<BR><BR></TT><BR><BR><TT>Your u=
se of=20
Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <A=20
href=3D"http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms of Service</A>.</=
TT>=20
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