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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>As David says, the majority seem not to ha=
ve been=20
ringers. Of course THE notable exception was The Revd H. T. Ellacombe - and=
=20
after reading authors like Tyack and Raven, one is left with the feeling th=
at=20
they had some practical knowledge of the Exercise. On the other hand, Fred=
=20
Sharpe told me that H. B. Walters rejoiced in the fact that he was not a=20
ringer.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The question is, "What makes a ringer ?"&n=
bsp;=20
Certainly many of the 19th-Century Bell Historians were living with the fac=
t (or=20
the legacy) of the disreputable behaviour of the pre-Ecclesiological bands =
of=20
ringers and had no wish to associate themselves with their activities, real=
or=20
imaginary. In our present time we have a parallel example (which has=
=20
appeared in The Ringing World this year) of a bellfounder who does not cons=
ider=20
himself a ringer - but who can handle a bell - but whose=20
technical knowledge of bells is at least equal to that of his principa=
l=20
competitor.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>DLC</FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
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<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>Fro=
m:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:david@b..."=20
title=3Ddavid@b...>David Bryant</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com"=20
title=3Dbellhistorians@yahoogroups.com>bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com</A>=
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, November 22, 2003 =
10:56=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Bell Historians] Can=
on JJ=20
Raven</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><TT>> Does anyone know if Canon JJ Raven was a ringer, =
as=20
well as a writer of<BR>> books about bells? I note there is no=20
obituary reference for him in the<BR>RW<BR>> listings. I believe=
he=20
may have died in 1906 but I do not have copies of<BR>> the earlier=20
publication to check.<BR><BR>Don't know but quite likely not. The majorit=
y of=20
early bell historians (i.e.<BR>those before Fred Sharpe) were not=20
ringers.<BR><BR>David<BR><BR></TT><BR><BR><TT>This=20
message was sent to you via the Bell Historians' Mailing List. To unsubsc=
ribe=20
from the list send an email to=20
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o.com/group/bellhistorians/</A></TT>=20
<BR><BR><TT>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <A=20
href=3D"http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms of Service</A>.</=
TT>=20
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