------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C5A339.A8B31860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Seems a good and plausible bit of textual analysis to me, John. Before we d= ebate how 'debased' the Latin is, maybe George can tell us the context / da= te of the quotation and in particular how certain he is that his transcript= ion is accurate (since, eg, the 'velut' seems to have been mis-transcribed)= . John. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: John Camp=20 To: bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [Bell Historians] Latin translations At 13:15 on 17 August 2005, I wrote: "Without love, we are just noisy lumps of bronze". It is, of course, based on 1 Corinthians 13 ("Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal" or, in the Vulgate: "si linguis hominum loquar et angelorum caritatem autem non habeam factus sum velut aes sonans aut cymbalum tinniens".) So a more 'biblical' translation might be: "Without charity, we are become as sounding brass". John Camp From: John Camp=20 To: bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 1:15 PM Subject: Re: [Bell Historians] Latin translations May I speculate that the word is actually 'caritate', spelt with a 'ch', in a rather debased mediaeval Latin way, so the inscription is SINE C(H)ARITATE FACTI SUMUS VELUT AES SONANS. It then means something along the lines: "Without love, we are just noisy lumps of bronze". John Camp From: John Thorp=20 To: bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 3:40 PM Subject: Re: [Bell Historians] Latin translations .... The best I can do is "Without [Chatilate or maybe Chatilas - a prope= r name?] we were made, just as sounding bronze" - assuming that "velur" is = "velut". Maybe someone else can do better. John Thorp. From: George Dawson=20 To: bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com=20 Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 3:07 PM Subject: [Bell Historians] Latin translations Could anyone translate this please: Sine Chatilate facti sumus Velur Aes sonans Ta GAD ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C5A339.A8B31860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Seems a good and plausible bit of textual = analysis=20 to me, John. Before we debate how 'debased' the Latin is, maybe George can = tell=20 us the context / date of the quotation and in particular how certain he is = that=20 his transcription is accurate (since, eg, the 'velut' seems to have been=20 mis-transcribed).
John.
----- Original Message -----
Fro= m:=20 John= Camp=20
To: bellhistorians@yahoogroups= .com=20
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 1= :26=20 PM
Subject: Re: [Bell Historians] Lat= in=20 translations
At 13:15 on 17 August 2005, I wrote:
"Without love, we are ju= st=20 noisy lumps of bronze".

It is, of course, based on 1 Corinthians 1= 3=20 ("Though I speak with the
tongues of men and of angels and have not=20 charity, I am become as
sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal" or, in t= he=20 Vulgate: "si linguis
hominum loquar et angelorum caritatem autem non h= abeam=20 factus sum
velut aes sonans aut cymbalum tinniens".)

So a more= =20 'biblical' translation might be: "Without charity, we are
become as=20 sounding brass".
John Camp
 
From: John Ca= mp=20
To: bellhistorians@yahoogroups= .com=20
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Bell Historians] Latin translations
May I speculate that the word is actually 'caritate', spelt with= =20 a
'ch', in a rather debased mediaeval Latin way, so the inscription=20 is
SINE C(H)ARITATE FACTI SUMUS VELUT AES SONANS. It then means=20 something
along the lines: "Without love, we are just noisy lumps of=20 bronze".
John Camp
 
Fro= m:=20 = John=20 Thorp
To: bellhistorians@yahoogroups= .com=20
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 3:4= 0=20 PM
Subject: Re: [Bell Historians] Lat= in=20 translations
.... The best I can do is "Without= =20 [Chatilate or maybe Chatilas - a proper name?] we were made, just as soun= ding=20 bronze" - assuming that "velur" is "velut". Maybe someone else can do=20 better.
John Thorp.
From: George Dawson
To: bellhistorians@yahoogrou= ps.com=20
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 3= :07=20 PM
Subject: [Bell Historians] Latin= =20 translations
Could anyone translate this=20 please:
Sine Chatilate facti sumus Velur Aes=20 sonans
Ta
GAD
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