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<DIV><SPAN class=766322017-28092006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>As
Christopher Dalton commented (on another topic in this list) "This is almost
interesting".</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=766322017-28092006></SPAN> </DIV>
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<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com] <B>On
Behalf Of </B>Carl S Zimmerman<BR><B>Sent:</B> 27 September 2006
20:59<BR><B>To:</B> bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Bell
Historians] Re: Carillonneur v Carillonist<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV id=ygrp-text>
<P>Phil Lucas wrote:<BR>>Interesting that its our Transatlantic friends
have brought this up.<BR><BR>Ahem. If you will review recent messages on this
List, I believe <BR>you'll find that I simply used the word in context under a
different <BR>subject. It was a trans-Pacific friend who converted that simple
<BR>mention into a discussion, the scope of which somewhat bemuses
me.<BR><BR>Phil Lucas also wrote:<BR>>Further to the discussion would a
female carilloneur/<WBR>carillonist be<BR>>a
carilloneuse/<WBR>carilloniste?<BR><BR>Possibly, if one prefers the French
flavour of "carillonneur.<WBR>" There <BR>is a member of the GCNA who
occasionally identifies herself (with <BR>tongue firmly in cheek) as a
carilloneuse.<BR><BR>Richard Offen, who seems particularly offended by the
word under <BR>discussion, asked:<BR>>Taking the 'ist' ending to its
logical musical conclusion, are we in<BR>>future to refer to Ringo Starr as
the former drummist with the<BR>>Beatles?<BR><BR>No, that's not the logical
conclusion. As pointed out in<BR><A
href="http://www.gcna.org/data/Glossary.html">http://www.gcna.<WBR>org/data/<WBR>Glossary.<WBR>html</A><BR>a
drummer is one who drums. Similarly, a ringer is one who rings; <BR>which also
answers Roderick Bickerson's complaint:<BR>>I do not want to be a bell
ringist.<BR><BR>No one is suggesting that you should be. Certainly I am not! I
am <BR>simply advocating that one who plays the carillon be called a
<BR>carillonist, just as one who plays the piano is called a
pianist.<BR><BR>Andrew Wilby asked,<BR>>how can you suggest that French
words are not part of English?<BR><BR>Where did I ever suggest that? On the
contrary, I've pointed out the <BR>French origins of words which are now part
of the English language.<BR><BR>What I will assert, now, is that when French
words come into the <BR>English language, they are Anglicised more often than
not. Not being <BR>a linguist, I cannot point you to solid evidence of that
assertion. <BR>But the words given in Andrew's example reflect it, as does the
<BR>flautist-to-<WBR>flutist change which someone else mentioned. My
<BR>preference for "carillonist" over "carillonneur" results from a <BR>desire
to be logically consistent in how that Anglicisation is done.<BR><BR>It's well
known that many French people are resentful of French words <BR>which were
derived from the English language. I find it very curious <BR>that some
British people are eager to use French words in English but <BR>are at the
same time resentful of the occasional Americanised word. <BR>(Many of us
'Murcans, a'course, will adopt any word from anywhere in <BR>our language, and
probably mangle it in the process.)<BR><BR>Carl<BR><BR>P.S. I trust, gentle
reader, that you will have noticed my careful <BR>attention to British
spellings, in deference to the sensibilities of <BR>the majority of the
subscribers to this List. Being American, I have <BR>probably not been
completely successful in the regard. So jes' be <BR>happy with wotcha
got!<BR><BR>P.P.S. It was the first carillonneur of Washington Cathedral, the
<BR>late Ronald Barnes, who may have been the first advocate (and was
<BR>certainly the foremost) of the word "carillonist"<WBR>. Many of his
<BR>students follow his teaching.<BR></P></DIV><BR><PRE>--
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