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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Are you quite sure they were tuned in 1952? They
were certainly not weighed, not that this proves anything, and were of course
rehung, having spent much of the war at Cleeve Abbey, in Somerset.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>DLC</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=richard.offen@2Qf9vb1W1mMAm7QOLSgx9GNB6ASTvdKxk7iZJUS5k_RjVRSnER2Lp2tHhNvO57XmdN8dHI_rQkTAowdK7vz6fPFf4Q5zFe-psCE.yahoo.invalid
href="mailto:richard.offen@6mGTPmjslm2eVwfAnWQ58Y0dWivMZHKUXjB9B9mKv6QA_S3XUMkliFZKWArHZxIDRULgkEdMGUnbXQ2WSk1_u-QPbw.yahoo.invalid">Richard Offen</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com
href="mailto:bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com">bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, August 11, 2008 2:52
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Bell Historians] 16th and
17th century tuning</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV id=ygrp-text>
<P>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Optima color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Optima">Not much help I’m
afraid as they were tuned by Whitechapel in the
1950s.<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Optima color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Optima"><O></O></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Optima color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Optima">R<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Optima color=black size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Optima"><O></O></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> <ST1><A
href="mailto:bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com">bellhistorians@<WBR>yahoogroups.<WBR>com</A></ST1>
[mailto:<ST1>bellhistorians@<WBR>yahoogroups.<WBR>com</ST1>] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Bickerton, Roderic (SELEX
<ST1><ST1>GALILEO</ST1>, <ST1>UK</ST1></ST1>)<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, 11 August 2008 6:18
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <ST1><A
href="mailto:bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com">bellhistorians@<WBR>yahoogroups.<WBR>com</A></ST1><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: [Bell Historians] 16th and
17th century tuning</SPAN></FONT><O></O></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O></O></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV id=ygrp-mlmsg>
<DIV id=ygrp-msg>
<DIV id=ygrp-text>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">What evidence is there from complete
rings:<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P>
<TABLE class=MsoNormalTable style="BACKGROUND: #bdd6ce" cellSpacing=1
cellPadding=0 bgColor=#bdd6ce border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: #eff7ef" vAlign=top bgColor=#eff7ef colSpan=8>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><ST1><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Smithfield</SPAN></FONT></ST1>
<ST1><ST1><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">London</SPAN></B></ST1></ST1>, Gr
Lon<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">S Bartholomew
Gt</SPAN></B><O></O></P></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"
align=center><ST1><ST1><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Bell</SPAN></FONT></ST1></ST1><O></O></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Weight<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Nominal<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Note<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Diameter<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Cast<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Founder<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Canons<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">1<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">2cwt<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">F#<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">22.00
"<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">c1510†<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Thomas
Bullisdon<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Y<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">2<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">2¾cwt<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">E<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">24.00
"<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">c1510†<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Thomas
Bullisdon<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Y<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">3<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">3½cwt<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">D#<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">26.50
"<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">c1510†<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Thomas
Bullisdon<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Y<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">4<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">4¼cwt<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">C#<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">29.00
"<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">c1510†<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Thomas
Bullisdon<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Y<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">5<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">5½cwt<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">B<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">31.00
"<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">c1510†<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Thomas
Bullisdon<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
<TD style="BACKGROUND: white" vAlign=top bgColor=white>
<P class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Y<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O></O></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
<ST1>bellhistorians@<WBR>yahoogroups.<WBR>com</ST1>
[mailto:<ST1>bellhistori<WBR>ans@yahoogroups.<WBR>com</ST1>] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Richard Smith<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> 11 August 2008 11:04<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
<ST1>bellhistorians@<WBR>yahoogroups.<WBR>com</ST1><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: [Bell Historians] 16th and
17th century tuning</SPAN></FONT><O></O></P>
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style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">*** WARNING ***<BR><BR>This mail has originated
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<DIV id=ygrp-text>
<P><ST1><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Richard Offen</SPAN></FONT></ST1> wrote:<BR><BR>>
> Is anyone aware of any research into how the tuning of rings<BR>> >
of bells evolved during the 16th and 17th centuries?<BR>><BR>> "<A
href="http://www.hibberts.co.uk/index.htm">http://www.hibberts<WBR>.co.uk/index.<WBR>htm</A>"<BR>>
"<A
href="http://www.kirnberger.fsnet.co.uk/">http://www.kirnberg<WBR>er.fsnet.<WBR>co.uk/</A>"<BR><BR>Interesting
though both of these are, I'm not sure either <BR>really touch on what I'm
interested on. Or perhaps they do, <BR>and I haven't managed to locate the
relevant parts, in which <BR>case a pointer would be appreciated.<BR><BR>The
only passage I can find that is slightly relevant to the <BR>introduction of a
major scale in rings of bells is the <BR>following paragraph on <ST1>Nigel
Taylor</ST1>'s site:<BR><BR>| Until the 17th century, few churches had more
than four <BR>| bells. These rarely formed a scale; this was of little <BR>|
consequence as each bell was used for a specific purpose, <BR>| such as the
curfew, sanctus, or tolling for the dead. <BR>| Little, if any attempt was
made to tune additional bells <BR>| to sound in tune with existing ones. In
the mid-17th century, <BR>| English change-ringing was beginning to develop,
and with <BR>| it the demand for greater numbers of bells in a set. For <BR>|
change-ringing to make any sense, clearly the bells must <BR>| form a
recognisable scale.<BR><BR>But this doesn't seem wholly compatible with John
Eisel's <BR>essay 'Change Ringing: The History of an English Art, Vol 1'
<BR>where he says:<BR><BR>| In the middle of the sixteenth century we have the
results <BR>| of the first surveys on the numbers of church bells. <BR>| [...]
The weights of the bells show that the bells would <BR>| have formed a ring
and this is emphasised by the returns <BR>| of the Commissioners for the
Hundred of Framland in <BR>| Leicestershire. Three parishes each had 'iij
bells of a <BR>| corde', Croxton Kerrial had 'iiij bells of a ryng', and <BR>|
Muston had 'iiij bells of one ryng'.<BR>|<BR>| A study of the 1552 and 1553
inventories shows that most <BR>| parish churches had between three and five
bells, although <BR>| some had fewer and a handful had more.<BR><BR>I would be
interested in what is known about the tuning of <BR>rings from this period.
Heinrich Glarean didn't publish <BR>'Dodecachordon' until 1547, and this is
usually credited as <BR>the point when the major scale (his Ionian mode) was
<BR>introduced, so it would seem surprising if this was in many <BR>mid-16th
century rings of bells.<BR><BR>Richard<O></O></P></DIV>
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