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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT size=4><FONT color=#800080><SPAN
class=542382808-10032009>As a cardinal issue is involved, and the decisions are
at a high level, and the precedence set is critical, is this an issue the CCCBR
should get involved in?</SPAN><BR></FONT></FONT></DIV>
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<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com] <B>On Behalf Of </B>George
Dawson<BR><B>Sent:</B> 10 March 2009 08:26<BR><B>To:</B>
bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Bell Historians] Great
Malvern<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">It was the
Chancellor who made the decision, it is he who needs ‘educating’. Letters to
him!!<O></O></SPAN></P>
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style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d">G<O></O></SPAN></P>
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style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"><O></O></SPAN></P>
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<P>Perhaps this is the case where we, as ringers, should make a real stand and
find (goodness knows from where!) the funds to help the parish fight this case
at the Court of Arches. If we don't EH will continue to run amok
with any bell restoration project that is put forward which their 'experts'
consider to be detrimental to trhe retention of historic
material.<BR><BR>R<BR><BR><BR><BR><B>On Tue Mar 10 6:37 , 'John H Allen'
sent:</B><O></O></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">I share David’s anger but as I
have already pointed out the Faculty application was supported by all the C Of
E bodes. It is the Bishop’s Legal Officer, the Chancellor who has come to
the opposite view. The decision needs to be challenged in the Court of the
Arches but whether the parish has the stomach or the funds to do this is
another matter. The PCC approved in January 2002 so it has taken 7 years to
get this far.</SPAN><O></O></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">I also notice that one of the
experts who is quoted in the judgement is an elected member of the CC’s
Towers and Belfries Committee.</SPAN><O></O></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">John</SPAN><O></O></P>
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<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> bellhistorians@<WBR>yahoogroups.<WBR>com
[mailto:bellhistori<WBR>ans@yahoogroups.<WBR>com] <B>On Behalf Of </B>David
Bryant<BR><B>Sent:</B> 09 March 2009 22:15<BR><B>To:</B> Bell
Historians<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Bell Historians] Great
Malvern</SPAN><O></O></P></DIV>
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<P>"Nowhere do I see a proper case made for keeping the frame."<BR><BR>Quite.
Some of the supposed justification is completely ludicrous, e.g:<BR><BR>"It is
however of historic interest ... locally for its place in the <BR>evolution of
the fittings of the medieval church building and of <BR>bell-ringing activity
at the Priory"<BR><BR>What complete nonsense! If this were a valid
justification it could be used <BR>as a reason for keeping absolutely anything
- and the danger is that this is <BR>exactly what will happen if it's accepted
as valid in this case.<BR><BR>Things are only likely to get worse, and part of
the problem is that there <BR>is no recognized group of bell historians to act
as an opposition party, and <BR>the way the CofE carries on doesn't help
situations like this. Granted, the <BR>CCC didn't agree with EH on this
occasion, but neither, it seems, did they <BR>actively fight it - which they
should have. The CCC has a policy on <BR>conservation which strikes a good
balance between the needs of ringers and <BR>the requirements of
conservationists, and it is in nobody's interest if EH <BR>is allowed to go to
ridiculous lengths without challenge<BR><BR>And here we come back to the
problem of the CCC Bells committee. Any chance <BR>of it becoming democratic
and people being appointed on merit with a clear <BR>and transparent
appointments procedure? Or is it just going to continue to <BR>operate on the
basis of the CCC appointing whoever they decide? At the last <BR>round of
appointments, I had never heard of the three people appointed, they <BR>had
(so far as I know) no background in Bell history, they are not members <BR>of
this list, none of them (so far as I know) came to the conference at
<BR>Worcester Cathedral and I have heard nothing about them since. Are they
<BR>doing a good job? I've no idea given that they are not part of the general
<BR>bell historian community. It was interesting that when I asked about the
<BR>appointments procedure at the Worcester conference, the CCC representative
<BR>didn't really answer the question.<BR><BR>If things are to improve I think
we really need a recognized society of bell <BR>historians which is accepted
as an expert witness in cases like this, or <BR>alternatively a new (and
transparent) setup at the CCC (which needs to be <BR>accepted by EH as the
principal expert body), but the chances of the latter <BR>happening don't seem
very high. Ideally someone, or better still a group, <BR>would take the CofE
on over the issue and at one time I might have had a <BR>go - but not now.
After a long-running dispute with the Diocese of York over <BR>something else,
I have nothing but contempt for the CofE and it has become <BR>very clear that
they don't consider that any of their actions should be <BR>subject to
scrutiny or question - it's still very much a Victorian <BR>organization which
thinks that people should just accept that the CofE is <BR>always right, and
always in the right. It's an attitude which doesn't bode <BR>well for any
attempts to reform the way it does things.<BR><BR>I wonder whether it's worth
members of this list emailing EH and the Diocese <BR>of Worcester to express
views on the matter? As bell historians, we might be <BR>expected by the
uninvolved to side with EH, but rather suspect that nearly <BR>all members of
this list will think that the decision made is the wrong one.<BR><BR>David
<O></O></P></DIV>
<P><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">No virus found in this incoming
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