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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Optima><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Optima;color:black'>I well remember the fun and games we had
with EH and the </span></font><font color=black face=Optima><span
style='font-family:Optima;color:black'>State Aid for Churches in the late 1970s
when I was on the Canterbury DAC. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Optima><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Optima;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Optima><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Optima;color:black'>EH were making parishes agree to totally
unreasonable requirements before they would consider a grant and then making
them wait up to two years (during which time no work was allowed to commence)
before giving an answer on whether a grant would be available or not.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Optima><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Optima;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Optima><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Optima;color:black'>The straw that broke the camel’s
back, as far as our DAC was concerned, was when a church’s north aisle was
on the verge collapsed because of the ingress of water through a leaking
roof. The leak was allowed to continue for two years (temporary
patched didn’t work) whilst EH deliberated whether to make a grant or
not. As a result of this case we, the DAC, demanded a meeting with
the Chairman of EH and went along mob-handed to forcefully put out case of
dissatisfaction. It worked, some of the demands on parishes went
away and grant applications were turned round in a much quicker time.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Optima><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Optima;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Optima><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Optima;color:black'>Richard</span></font><font color=black
face=Optima><span style='font-family:Optima;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face=Optima><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Optima;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com</st1:PersonName> [mailto:<st1:PersonName
w:st="on">bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com</st1:PersonName>] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>John H Allen<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, 9 October 2009 5:08
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [<st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Bell</st1:place></st1:City> Historians] CCCBR and English Heritage</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div id=ygrp-mlmsg>
<div style='float:left;z-index:1' id=ygrp-msg>
<div id=ygrp-text>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>Chris,<o></o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><o> </o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>Very interesting if the Chancellor granted the Faculty on the
basis that the old frame was to be on permanent display in the churchyard! I
would assume that no Faculty was obtained for its removal.<o></o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><o> </o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>My view is that the Church is scared that the Ecclesiastical
Exemption may be withdrawn – it has been threatened many times –
that they will not take a tough line with EH and others. This all goes back to
the decision of the General Synod to grab money offered as State Aid for
Churches in the late 1970s. Many of us at the time were concerned about the
small print and events have proved that our fears were justified.<o></o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><o> </o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>John<o></o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><o> </o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'> </span></font><o></o><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:
bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">bellhistorians@<wbr>yahoogroups.<wbr>com</st1:PersonName>
[mailto:<st1:PersonName w:st="on">bellhistori<wbr>ans@yahoogroups.<wbr>com</st1:PersonName>]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Chris Pickford<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday 08 October 2009
21:59<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">bellhistorians@<wbr>yahoogroups.<wbr>com</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [<st1><st1><st1:City
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Bell</st1></st1></st1:place></st1:City>
Historians] CCCBR and English Heritage</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<o></o>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o> </o><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o></o><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<!doctype HTML>
<div id=ygrp-mlmsg>
<div id=ygrp-msg>
<div id=ygrp-text>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face="Comic Sans MS"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>The
Walsgrave frame is no longer there - apparently it became a "den" in
which youths smoked illegal substances, and the police requested it's removal.
It wouldn't have lasted long there anyway</span></font><o></o><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o></o><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face="Comic Sans MS"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>It
deserved better. It was quite an worthwhile frame - totally unsuitable for
re-use, but interesting enough to merit preservation <em><i><font
face="Comic Sans MS"><span style='font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>ex situ</span></font></i></em>
(subject to practicalities)<wbr>. It is illustrated in <em><i><font
face="Comic Sans MS"><span style='font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>Bellframes</span></font></i></em>
and also in my RW article on Walsgrave (RW 1985 p.1078)</span></font><o></o><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o></o><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face="Comic Sans MS"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'>CP</span></font><o></o><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o></o><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o></o><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm;
margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>-----
Original Message ----- <o></o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:john@XEak55xsWudmQ0cAXo8CqrNJyC_8Q3iD6sz4gpEWTy7__Q3qaLOcMpie_GJa1n7GVX7jWgtHCagTpQuA.yahoo.invalid" title="john@XEak55xsWudmQ0cAXo8CqrNJyC_8Q3iD6sz4gpEWTy7__Q3qaLOcMpie_GJa1n7GVX7jWgtHCagTpQuA.yahoo.invalid">John H Allen</a> <o></o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:
bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> <a href="mailto:bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com"
title="bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com">bellhistorians@<wbr>yahoogroups.<wbr>com</a>
<o></o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:
bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Thursday, October 08, 2009 6:45 PM<o></o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:
bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> RE: [<st1><st1><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Bell</st1></st1></st1:place></st1:City>
Historians] CCCBR and English Heritage<o></o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o> </o><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o></o><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div id=ygrp-text>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'>I wonder what SPAB would say about the old frame in the churchyard
at Walsgrave Coventry?<O></O></span></font><o></o><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=black face=Arial><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:black'><O></O>John<O></O></span></font><o></o><o:p></o:p></p>
<font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
"Times New Roman"'><O></O></span></font>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'></O>size=2
width="100%" align=center tabIndex=-1> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:
bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <a href="mailto:bellhistorians@9LI37NtMkTnER64tn3xHoikj3oyWbCaK288viuXQMaLCvv12APBj37RU1_DedanWWuvq0JWZj9bC5FzZKUja-L6N2w.yahoo.invalidm">bellhistorians@<wbr>yahoogroups.<wbr>com</a>
[mailto:<st1:PersonName w:st="on">bellhistori<wbr>ans@yahoogroups.<wbr>com</st1:PersonName>]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Anne Willis<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday 08 October 2009
17:55<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <a
href="mailto:bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com">bellhistorians@<wbr>yahoogroups.<wbr>com</a><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [<ST1><ST1><st1><st1><st1:City
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Bell</ST1></ST1></st1></st1></st1:place></st1:City>
Historians] CCCBR and English Heritage</span></font><o></o><o:p></o:p></p>
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--- In <a href="mailto:bellhistorians%40yahoogroups.com">bellhistorians@<wbr>yahoogroups.<wbr>com</a>,
"<st1:PersonName w:st="on">Mark Regan</st1:PersonName>"
<markregan@.<wbr>..> wrote:<br>
>... I wouldn't rely on the CCCBR for anything to do to support the Church's<br>
planning process, the CBC, EH or anyone else.<br>
<br>
Another player in the game is SPAB (Society for Protection of Ancient<br>
Buildings); a most useful organisation if you have an old house, but<br>
unfortunately they also pronounce on old bell frames, the latest being<br>
Horton, Gloucs.<br>
<br>
I have had correspondence with their secretary, <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Matt</st1:PersonName>hew
Slocombe, and it<br>
seems to me that there is a very large gap between conservationists, who<br>
want to preserve things and think ringers are a bunch of noisy barbarians,<br>
and ringers, who want something that is safely full-circle ringable,<br>
preferably enjoyably.<br>
<br>
Another matter concerns the retention of old bell frames. WRT Horton SPAB<br>
was not happy about the idea to display the old frame in a nearby barn,<br>
security and context being the main issues. They seem immovable on the<br>
matter, despite the fact that a display in a barn is much more accessible,<br>
particularly for the disabled, safer, and easier to see and appreciate.<br>
Properly displayed, with perhaps a model bell and good labelling, people<br>
could actually learn something about bells and bell-hanging. <br>
<br>
Anne<O></O><o></o><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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