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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=243081811-26102009><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Bell frame collapse, is there a recorded case?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=243081811-26102009><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=243081811-26102009><FONT face=Arial
size=2>There are several well documented cases of tower Collapse and lots of
cases of single bells collapsing into pits, crown cracks being a frequent
cause.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=243081811-26102009><FONT face=Arial
size=2>the only cases of frame collapse I have heard about have been
fires.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=243081811-26102009><FONT face=Arial
size=2>One would think a failure and collapse of a tower floor more likely as
all beam ends are often enclosed, and much less substantial timber is involved.
I don't think I know of even this actually occurring, although I have seen
one or two I would not want to stand under, let alone step
on.</FONT></SPAN></DIV><!-- Converted from text/plain format -->
<P><FONT size=2>I do not work Wednesday Thursday or Friday.<BR>Please forward to
rodbic@LaayF5XiJFD8nGGEogsSeCYtzY6Ts58y2sdrdPq9pwvE36m5VPTom7tX6Oc2OY9sinar75zvUdjA.yahoo.invalid as well as my work email if you want me to see it on these
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<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Richard
Offen<BR><B>Sent:</B> 26 October 2009 08:51<BR><B>To:</B>
bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Bell Historians] Daily
Telegraph letter<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV><PRE> *** WARNING ***
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<DIV id=ygrp-text>
<P>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Optima size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Optima">What is factually
incorrect about my letter? <O></O></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Optima size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Optima"><O></O></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Optima size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Optima">The fact that there
<I><SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic">are</SPAN></I> some preserved rings was not
the point. Bells were made to be rung, not left
silent.<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Optima size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Optima"><O></O></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Optima size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Optima">The example of a
collapsing frame is an extreme one, but it is factually correct that most bell
installations, when not used, are totally forgotten. I can think of
a number of examples where we know for a fact that the inspecting architect did
NOT visit the belfry as part of a</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Optima><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Optima"> <SPAN
lang=EN-GB>quinquennial</SPAN></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Optima><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Optima"> inspection, so the potential for
collapse is real in some cases.<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Optima size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Optima"><O></O></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Optima size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Optima">What ever the answer,
it’s purely academic as my letter wasn’t published!<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Optima size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Optima"><O></O></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Optima size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Optima">Richard<O></O></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Optima size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Optima"><O></O></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
<ST1>bellhistorians@<WBR>yahoogroups.<WBR>com</ST1>
[mailto:<ST1>bellhistorians@<WBR>yahoogroups.<WBR>com</ST1>] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Bickerton, Roderic (SELEX
<ST1><ST1>GALILEO</ST1>, <ST1>UK</ST1></ST1>)<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Monday, 26 October 2009 6:27
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
<ST1>bellhistorians@<WBR>yahoogroups.<WBR>com</ST1><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: [Bell Historians] Daily
Telegraph letter</SPAN></FONT><O></O></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O></O></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <O></O></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV id=ygrp-mlmsg>
<DIV id=ygrp-msg>
<DIV id=ygrp-text>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I do not like the letter because it
is factually incorrect.</SPAN></FONT><O></O></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">there are a fair number of examples
of "preserved rings" around.</SPAN></FONT><O></O></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Churches are inspected and collapse
is prevented.</SPAN></FONT><O></O></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The sad site meeting the very rare
visitor is one of bells in there pits there mouths resting on timbers taking the
load off decayed framework and fittings, the whole supported on underpinning
beams, the original frame supports having long since rotted where they
enter the tower walls. </SPAN></FONT><O></O></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Nothing destroyed, historically
complete, and utterly useless.</SPAN></FONT><O></O></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O></O></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sometimes the utter stupidity of the
situation is underlined when you find out that because of H&S the only
person ever allowed up to see the mess is the church architect, which does beg
the question as to who the preservation is for.</SPAN></FONT><O></O></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O></O></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O></O></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
<ST1>bellhistorians@<WBR>yahoogroups.<WBR>com</ST1>
[mailto:<ST1>bellhistori<WBR>ans@yahoogroups.<WBR>com</ST1>] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Richard Offen<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> 22 October 2009 15:15<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
<ST1>bellhistorians@<WBR>yahoogroups.<WBR>com</ST1><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: [Bell Historians] Daily
Telegraph letter</SPAN></FONT><O></O></P><PRE><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> *** WARNING ***<O></O></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><O> </O></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> This message has originated outside your organisation, <O></O></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> either from an external partner or the Global Internet. <O></O></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Keep this in mind if you answer this message.<O></O></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><O> </O></SPAN></FONT></PRE>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <O></O></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV id=ygrp-text>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Optima size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Optima">The following has
just gone off to the Telegraph:<O></O></SPAN></FONT><O></O></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O></O>Sir,<O></O></SPAN></FONT><O></O></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O></O>The English Heritage
document, ‘Conservation Principles Policies and Guidance for the Sustainable
Management of the Historic Environment’ states:<O></O></SPAN></FONT><O></O></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O></O>“Our definition of
conservation includes the objective of sustaining heritage values. In managing
significant places, ‘to preserve’, even accepting its established legal
definition of ‘to do no harm’, is only one aspect of what is needed to sustain
heritage values.”<O></O></SPAN></FONT><O></O></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O></O>Church bells were designed to
be rung, yes <I><SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic">rung</SPAN></I>, not left mute
like exhibits in a museum case. The very act of rendering bells
silent by the insistence of the retention of worn out and sometime dangerous
fittings and bell frames is to totally disregard every other aspect of the
heritage value of church bells.<O></O></SPAN></FONT><O></O></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O></O>Philip Venning’s comparison
with a vintage car is a total red herring. I cannot think of many
vintage car owners who use their vehicles for their weekly trip to the
supermarket. It is not the blindest bit of good bell ringers ringing
the bells in a neighbouring village church to summon people to church in their
own village.<O></O></SPAN></FONT><O></O></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O></O>If bells aren’t used they
become forgotten and left to fester high up in a tower. Eventually
the bell frame gives up the unequal battle of supporting the bells it contains
and collapses, causing considerable damage to both the tower fabric and
historically significant bells. Then who has
won?<O></O></SPAN></FONT><O></O></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O></O>Yours
etc.,<O></O></SPAN></FONT><O></O></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O></O>Richard
Offen<O></O></SPAN></FONT><O></O></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O></O>Captain of the
<ST1><ST1><ST1><ST1>Bell</ST1></ST1></ST1></ST1>
Ringers<O></O></SPAN></FONT><O></O></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">The
<ST1><ST1><ST1><ST1>Bell</ST1></ST1>
<ST1><ST1>Tower</ST1></ST1><O></O></ST1></ST1></SPAN></FONT><O></O></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><ST1><ST1><ST1><ST1><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Perth</SPAN></FONT></ST1></ST1></ST1></ST1><O></O></P><O></O>
<P class=MsoNormal><ST1><ST1><ST1><ST1><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Western
Australia</SPAN></FONT></ST1></ST1></ST1></ST1><O></O></P><O></O><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><O></O></SPAN></FONT>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O></O>
<HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
<ST1><ST1>bellhistorians@<WBR>yahoogroups.<WBR>com</ST1></ST1>
[mailto:<ST1><ST1>bellhistorians@<WBR>yahoogroups.<WBR>com</ST1></ST1>] <B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Robert Lewis<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, 22 October 2009 9:58
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
<ST1><ST1>bellhistorians@<WBR>yahoogroups.<WBR>com</ST1></ST1><BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: [Bell Historians] Daily
Telegraph letter</SPAN></FONT><O></O><O></O></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O></O> <O></O><O></O></SPAN></FONT></P>
<DIV id=ygrp-mlmsg>
<DIV id=ygrp-msg>
<DIV id=ygrp-text>
<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">At 14:24
22/10/2009, Richard Offen wrote:<BR><BR>>I hope someone is going to reply to
this incredibly crass piece of <BR>>correspondence. I know that one of the
ringers in <ST1><ST1><ST1><ST1>Hobart</ST1></ST1></ST1></ST1> has
<BR>>already sent an e-mail letter to the Telegraph.<BR><BR>I hope so too -
but I don't think it will be me. I doubt that they <BR>would publish two letters
from the same individual within the space <BR>of a couple of weeks. The response
needs to be short and pithy in my <BR>view (more chance of getting published
that way as well).<BR><BR>Maybe you are the man for this task
Richard!<BR><BR>RAL<O></O><O></O></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV><!--End group email -->
<P><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">No
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