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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>My thanks to Andrew for taking the time to
dig out the tuning book entry for Mancroft. This looks like cast-iron evidence
to me, while the two Davids have seen the marks of machine-tuning on the bell.
The entry in the job book, which strongly implies that NONE of the bells were
tuned, is a little bit strange. Possibly the tenor was tuned as an afterthought
and nobody updated the job book entry.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>From what I can tell of the tuning book
format, the top row of figures was the ideal result that the tuner was aiming
for – i.e. true-harmonic (fat chance with an 1814 Mears bell!). The row
underneath “as received” are the figures before any tuning was
carried out, and the remaining rows are the intermediate measurements. The
bottom row are the finished figures, which tally very closely with Bill Hibbert’s
measured figures of 136.5, 245, 304, 394, 502. The nominal was lowered from C
-31 to B + 29, and the prime adjusted from -55 cents to – 42, and the hum
from +161 to +145.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Andrew Bull<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com</st1:PersonName> [mailto:<st1:PersonName
w:st="on">bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com</st1:PersonName>] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b><st1:PersonName w:st="on">Andrew
Higson</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 09 November 2009 12:37<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [Bell Historians]
Mancroft tenor (was unusual clock chimes) [1 Attachment]</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=blue face="Baskerville Old Face"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Baskerville Old Face";color:blue'>If this attachment works –
DB help if it doesn’t – I offer it as evidence for the defence!<o></o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=blue face="Baskerville Old Face"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Baskerville Old Face";color:blue'><o> </o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=blue face="Baskerville Old Face"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Baskerville Old Face";color:blue'>Regards<o></o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=blue face="Baskerville Old Face"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Baskerville Old Face";color:blue'><o> </o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><st1:PersonName
w:st="on"><font size=3 color=blue face="Baskerville Old Face"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Baskerville Old Face";color:blue'>Andrew
Higson</span></font></st1:PersonName><o:p></o:p></p>
<o></o>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=blue face="Baskerville Old Face"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Baskerville Old Face";color:blue'>John Taylor & Co.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<o></o>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=blue face="Baskerville Old Face"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Baskerville Old Face";color:blue'>The Bellfoundry</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<o></o>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=blue face="Baskerville Old Face"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Baskerville Old Face";color:blue'>Freehold Street</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<o></o>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=blue face="Baskerville Old Face"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Baskerville Old Face";color:blue'>Loughborough</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<o></o>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 color=blue face="Baskerville Old Face"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Baskerville Old Face";color:blue'>LE11 1AR</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<o></o>
<p><font size=3 color=blue face="Baskerville Old Face"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:"Baskerville Old Face";color:blue'>Telephone: 01509 212241
Fax: 01509 263305 Registered in <st1><st1><st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">England</st1></st1></st1:place></st1:country-region> No. 7032766</span></font><o></o><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:
bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <st1><st1:PersonName w:st="on">bellhistorians@<wbr>yahoogroups.<wbr>com</st1></st1:PersonName>
[mailto:<st1><st1:PersonName w:st="on">bellhistorians@<wbr>yahoogroups.<wbr>com</st1></st1:PersonName>]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>David Cawley<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 09 November 2009 12:15<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1><st1:PersonName w:st="on">bellhistorians@<wbr>yahoogroups.<wbr>com</st1></st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Bell Historians]
Mancroft tenor (was unusual clock chimes)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<o></o>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o> </o><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o></o><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<!doctype HTML>
<div id=ygrp-mlmsg>
<div id=ygrp-msg>
<div id=ygrp-text>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Unfortunately
a great many of my papers are presently atill unpacked following the move from
Leicester to <st1><st1><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Margate</st1></st1></st1:place></st1:City>.
However, I have seen and copied certain of the correspondence re Mancroft tenor
at Loughborough and am able to recollect what I read. The
whole restoration was quite an involved case, and involved a <st1><st1><st1:Street
w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on">Consistory Court</st1></st1></st1:address></st1:Street>
(which was largely about the bell frame; <st1><st1><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Taylors</st1></st1></st1:place></st1:City> were prepared to
strengthen the old one if required to do so, but in the end the Chancellor
allowed a new frame). So far as the tenor was concerned it was considerably
lighter than its "given" weight of 43-something. JT&Co stated
that ideally the bell should be recast, but settled for tuning it; not
extensively but with eminently satisfactory results. When the builders have
finished with my study, no doubt I would be able to produce the
"documentary evidence" Andrew requires. Meanwhile there is evidence
still to be seen in the bell itself.</span></font><o></o><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o></o><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>DLC</span></font><o></o><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o></o><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 0cm;
margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>-----
Original Message ----- <o></o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:a_m_bull@nBtjKtZ3cYvbWJHAhw-CLEPiFaKxE9YBMK4yTZUmMQvw_A5IFE3l3Lt4dpmyMi1b_tIulI3z5HDuT8V2.yahoo.invalid" title="a_m_bull@nBtjKtZ3cYvbWJHAhw-CLEPiFaKxE9YBMK4yTZUmMQvw_A5IFE3l3Lt4dpmyMi1b_tIulI3z5HDuT8V2.yahoo.invalid">Andrew Bull</a>
<o></o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:
bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'> <a href="mailto:bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com"
title="bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com">bellhistorians@<wbr>yahoogroups.<wbr>com</a>
<o></o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:
bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Friday, November 06, 2009 8:16 PM<o></o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:
bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> RE: [Bell Historians] Mancroft tenor (was unusual
clock chimes)<o></o></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'><o> </o><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o></o><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div id=ygrp-text>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>I’ve heard it said a few times that Mancroft tenor was tuned
when the bells underwent a full restoration by <ST1><ST1><st1><st1><st1:City
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Taylors</ST1></ST1></st1></st1></st1:place></st1:City>
in 1925. I have examined the job book entry at Loughborough for the job, and on
that evidence it seems that NONE of the bells were tuned. Those on the list who
have examined Taylors’ job books first-hand will be familiar with the
format; for each job is given the weights as received, the wheel diameters,
estimated weights of any new bells, weights “as dispatched”, and
then underneath the tuning figures, generally before and after tuning. For the
Mancroft entry, the table for the tuning figures has been set out, but no
figures entered in the table. Instead, underneath is written “not
altered”. I have always taken this phrase to indicate that no tuning was
carried out on any of the bells.<O></O></span></font><o></o><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><O></O>I have not checked in the tuning books for the Mancroft job,
but the entry in the job book seems fairly conclusive. Does anyone have
documentary evidence that the tenor WAS tuned in 1925?<O></O></span></font><o></o><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><O></O>I did have a ring at Mancroft a couple of years ago,
expecting to hate them, but came away rather liking them. Perhaps I was just
taken in by the history of the place? But Bill Hibbert told me – in terms
I am still studying! – that there are definite reasons why I may have
liked them.<O></O></span></font><o></o><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><O></O>Andrew Bull<O></O></span></font><o></o><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:
bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <ST1><st1><st1:PersonName w:st="on">bellhistorians@<wbr>yahoogroups.<wbr>com</ST1></st1></st1:PersonName>
[mailto:<ST1><st1><st1:PersonName w:st="on">bellhistorians@<wbr>yahoogroups.<wbr>com</ST1></st1></st1:PersonName>]
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Richard Offen<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 06 November 2009 03:58<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <ST1><st1><st1:PersonName
w:st="on">bellhistorians@<wbr>yahoogroups.<wbr>com</ST1></st1></st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Bell Historians]
Unusual clock chimes</span></font><O></O><o></o><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Although
not strictly a clock chime, the very plaintive sound of Norwich Cathedral bells
being chimed automatically should be a must for the recording!<br>
<br>
I agree with you about the front 11 at Mancroft. Dunstan was pretty
near being a 'Simpson' bell before tuning and is near perfect (even upper
partials in tune) after.<br>
<br>
Richard<br>
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<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On Fri Nov 6 5:18 , 'David Cawley' <DAVIDL>sent:<O></O></span></b><o></o><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>At
Glandford, <ST1><ST1><st1><st1><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Norfolk</ST1></ST1></st1></st1></st1:place></st1:City>,
there is a very good twelve-bell chime (Taylors 1900, 11-1-17 in G) complete
with chiming clock and an impressive barrell which plays every three hours;
there is a weekly selection of tunes. You can see it in action at the end
of the John Betjeman film A Passion for Churches. A video is still advertised
for sale on the Whitechapel website.</span></font><O></O><o></o><o:p></o:p></p>
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size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><O></O>Re
Richard's email below: the clock bells, now hanging above Great
Dunstan are all the more interesting as they are nos 4-8 of the
"characterful" old twelve which preceded the present ring in the SW
tower. On GD's place among good-sounding 18th-century bells: one has to
remember that the bell is by no means as cast - indeed some 6-cwt lighter after
the very successful tuning had been completed. I would put my money on
the Lester & Pack front 11 at Mancroft, never tuned by anyone after
being supplied to the church. When <ST1><ST1><st1><st1><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Taylors</ST1></ST1></st1></st1></st1:place></st1:City> rehung them
in 1925 they neither suggested nor undertook any tuning to these bells, only to
the T Mears II tenor.</span></font><O></O><o></o><o:p></o:p></p>
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size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><O></O>DLC</span></font><O></O><o></o><o:p></o:p></p>
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