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<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=328121813-05052010>As Sam
and Andrew point out this is not something which will be determined on the basis
of objections or letters of support. The case officer will
be trying to come to a conclusion based on the issues involved, not on the
number of people writing in. Also I know from my own
experience that planning officers view letter writing
campaigns conducted by people living outside the area with a great
deal of scepticism! So it's important to put forward arguments which can
be related to policies on historic buildings and their contents rather than
emotional attachment to bells.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=328121813-05052010></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=328121813-05052010>Current guidance on dealing with planning and listed
building applications is contained in PPS5 (Planning Policy Statement: Planning
for the Historic Environment). This came out in March 2010, replacing
earlier guidance, so it's a fairly recent document. This means
that the staff at Stoke as in every local authority Planning
Service will still be learning their way round it, especially as the Policy
Statement is accompanied by a lengthy Practice Guide.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=328121813-05052010></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=328121813-05052010>For
details of all the relevant documents (and I'm afraid there's a lot of them!)
see <A
href="http://www.communities.gov.uk/planningandbuilding/planning/planningpolicyguidance/planningpolicystatements/planningpolicystatements/pps5/">http://www.communities.gov.uk/planningandbuilding/planning/planningpolicyguidance/planningpolicystatements/planningpolicystatements/pps5/</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=328121813-05052010></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=328121813-05052010>It
seems to me that the most important considerations here are
those from section HE7 of the Practice Guide onwards. Much of it
is concerned with what happens when a listed building has no economic use.
Paragraph 91 says:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=328121813-05052010><FONT
size=2><SPAN class=328121813-05052010><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT
size=3><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=328121813-05052010></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=328121813-05052010><FONT
size=2><SPAN class=328121813-05052010><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT
size=3><FONT size=2><SPAN class=328121813-05052010>"</SPAN>Where substantial
harm to, or total loss of, the asset’s significance is proposed a case can be
made on the grounds that it is necessary to allow a proposal that offers
substantial public benefits. For the loss to be necessary there will be no other
reasonable means of delivering similar public benefits, for example through
different design or development of an appropriate alternative site<SPAN
class=328121813-05052010>"</SPAN>.</FONT>
</FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=328121813-05052010></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=328121813-05052010>This
needs to be read in context, but it seems to me to provide a sound basis
for arguing that there are public benefits to be secured
from relocating Hanley bells somewhere that will allow them to be
appreciated as a heritage asset.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=328121813-05052010></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=328121813-05052010>As
Andrew points out there's quite a lot of case law involving historic
buildings. If anyone wants to research them the standard textbook is
Charles Mynors' Listed Buildings, Conservation Areas and Monuments (4th edition
2006, so it has yet to be revised to take account of the latest
guidance). A few extracts from it are available on the
internet:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=328121813-05052010></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=328121813-05052010><A
href="http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=XBsuBGm5AccC&pg=PA3&lpg=PA3&dq=charles+mynors+places+of+worship&source=bl&ots=zaG0Qsm-OD&sig=x1LZ-lyd9nU1YATLIMZ01AT-Dt4&hl=en&ei=r3jhS6jjDoyI0wSauf2eAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CA8Q6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=false">http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=XBsuBGm5AccC&pg=PA3&lpg=PA3&dq=charles+mynors+places+of+worship&source=bl&ots=zaG0Qsm-OD&sig=x1LZ-lyd9nU1YATLIMZ01AT-Dt4&hl=en&ei=r3jhS6jjDoyI0wSauf2eAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CA8Q6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=false</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=328121813-05052010> </SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2><SPAN class=328121813-05052010></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=328121813-05052010>This
is a brief summary but I hope that it is some help.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN
class=328121813-05052010></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=328121813-05052010>Peter
Rivet</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<P align=center><FONT size=2><SPAN class=328121813-05052010><FONT
face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT
size=3></FONT></FONT></FONT> </P></DIV></SPAN></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com]<B>On
Behalf Of </B>Andrew Wilby<BR><B>Sent:</B> 05 May 2010 11:31<BR><B>To:</B>
bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Bell Historians] Have
you voted yet?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><SPAN style="DISPLAY: none"> </SPAN>
<DIV id=ygrp-text>
<P>Sam is quite right. These replies are not votes and are not weighed.<BR>To
be taken any notice of at all they need to address the "material
issues"<BR><BR>Peter Rivet may better to be able to help with this but the
issue is, I believe, whether or not the removal of the bells is counter to the
interests that the Grade 2* Listing seeks to preserve.<BR><BR>If it were only
Grade 2 then the the external appearance would only be the issue.<BR>The star
upgrades the status and in this case from what I have read mainly concens the
internal construction of the nave itself.<BR><BR>Therefore it can be argued
that the bells are not the focus of the listing and in any case are not
original having been recast.<BR><BR>It follows therefore for the Committee
that on balance, taking into consideration all the other factors such as
problems in making them safe, the fact they they will never be sounded again
et,c that it is reasonable to agree to their removal.<BR><BR>If it hasn't been
done already, someone with the time might research a few precedents where
bells have been removed from listed buildings to demonstrate that this is not
a unique situation even if this Planning Authority hasn't had one
recently.<BR><BR>Andrew<BR><BR>On 05/05/2010 09:45, Sam0austin wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:50122760-99F1-48E4-8EEB-B8FB541980AE@rNHUPmjuCphCBICrrFUO0A1f4K2UUxN_cVeOKla59lpB_WYEPs8FnsNkDlyzHGe4wCRqwpFvPKeeIL6MFbKo-wJ8VaVV2mCaLxsJMPoXkOPPKCzW8KwFTZA.yahoo.invalidm
type="cite">
<DIV>I've seen your submission Richard. If anyone else is going to vote then
I suggest they could be more imaginative with their comments.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>"Bells are meant to be heard" & "They should ring to the Glory of
God" seem to have been done to death by ringers, and I'm not sure if that
will 'wash' with Stoke Council; remember they are civ servants and may not
be ringers, musicians or Christian. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>If someone knows how these planning departments work, I'm sure a
paragraph or two's worth of guidence for 'would-be' voters would be
welcomed.<BR>Aye</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Sam<BR>Sent from my iPhone</DIV>
<DIV><BR>On 5 May 2010, at 09:31, Richard Grimmett <<A
href="mailto:richard@Y-C0E08uIAVOaq340FI_rLFfeOBQgmXaNk2QzsCWR3lQ4gZkWu-QZQ_YcECflRWGKM3CNAbqylSWoMPu.yahoo.invalid"
moz="true">richard@grimmett.<WBR>org</A>> wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV><SPAN> </SPAN>
<DIV id=ygrp-text>
<P>Robert Lewis wrote:<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> At 19:22 08/04/2008, you
wrote:<BR>> Time is running out. 7th May is the deadline.<BR>>
<BR>> No, not the general election ...<BR>> <BR>> To save Hanley
Bells:<BR><BR>They don't make it easy to check your submission is logged.
I cannot <BR>find mine. I submitted weeks ago and received an
acknowledgement about <BR>a fortnight later, but I cannot find it on the
site.<BR><BR>Clarrie<BR></P></DIV><!-- end group email --></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV style="COLOR: white" width="1"></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
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