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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>First of all my thanks to everyone that has taken the time to
comment in favour of transferring the bells to Stone.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>As Peter Rivet said, the guidance on dealing with LBC
applications changed last month.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>We have a meeting next Monday with the planning officer to find
out how to re-write our justification statement in line with the latest guide
lines.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>It is interesting to note that most of the comments received
against the transfer of the bells had nothing to do with polices on historic
buildings and every thing do with the emotional side of loosing their bells. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>This application will come before planning and development
committee for decision, hopefully early June of July.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Simon Linford spoke yesterday on Radio Stoke about the
application. (+15mins from the start)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><a
href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p007l0s6/Breakfast_with_Pete_Morgan_05_05_2010/">http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p007l0s6/Breakfast_with_Pete_Morgan_05_05_2010/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Dave Simpson<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Peter Rivet<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 05 May 2010 15:10<br>
<b>To:</b> bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Bell Historians] The future of Hanley bells<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div id=ygrp-mlmsg>
<div id=ygrp-msg>
<div id=ygrp-text>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>As Sam and Andrew point out this is not something which will be
determined on the basis of objections or letters of support. The
case officer will be trying to come to a conclusion based on the issues
involved, not on the number of people writing in. Also I know from
my own experience that planning officers view letter writing
campaigns conducted by people living outside the area with a great
deal of scepticism! So it's important to put forward arguments which can
be related to policies on historic buildings and their contents rather than
emotional attachment to bells.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Current guidance on dealing with planning and listed building
applications is contained in PPS5 (Planning Policy Statement: Planning for the
Historic Environment). This came out in March 2010, replacing earlier
guidance, so it's a fairly recent document. This means that the
staff at Stoke as in every local authority Planning Service will
still be learning their way round it, especially as the Policy Statement is accompanied
by a lengthy Practice Guide.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>For details of all the relevant documents (and I'm afraid there's a
lot of them!) see <a
href="http://www.communities.gov.uk/planningandbuilding/planning/planningpolicyguidance/planningpolicystatements/planningpolicystatements/pps5/">http://www.communities.gov.uk/planningandbuilding/planning/planningpolicyguidance/planningpolicystatements/planningpolicystatements/pps5/</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>It seems to me that the most important considerations here are
those from section HE7 of the Practice Guide onwards. Much of
it is concerned with what happens when a listed building has no economic
use. Paragraph 91 says:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>"Where substantial harm to, or total loss of, the asset’s
significance is proposed a case can be made on the grounds that it is necessary
to allow a proposal that offers substantial public benefits. For the loss to be
necessary there will be no other reasonable means of delivering similar public
benefits, for example through different design or development of an appropriate
alternative site".</span><span style='font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>This needs to be read in context, but it seems to me to provide
a sound basis for arguing that there are public benefits to be
secured from relocating Hanley bells somewhere that will allow them to be
appreciated as a heritage asset.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>As Andrew points out there's quite a lot of case law involving
historic buildings. If anyone wants to research them the standard
textbook is Charles Mynors' Listed Buildings, Conservation Areas and Monuments
(4th edition 2006, so it has yet to be revised to take account of the latest
guidance). A few extracts from it are available on
the internet:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'><a
href="http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=XBsuBGm5AccC&pg=PA3&lpg=PA3&dq=charles+mynors+places+of+worship&source=bl&ots=zaG0Qsm-OD&sig=x1LZ-lyd9nU1YATLIMZ01AT-Dt4&hl=en&ei=r3jhS6jjDoyI0wSauf2eAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CA8Q6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=false">http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=XBsuBGm5AccC&pg=PA3&lpg=PA3&dq=charles+mynors+places+of+worship&source=bl&ots=zaG0Qsm-OD&sig=x1LZ-lyd9nU1YATLIMZ01AT-Dt4&hl=en&ei=r3jhS6jjDoyI0wSauf2eAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CA8Q6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=false</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>This is a brief summary but I hope that it is some help.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:blue'>Peter Rivet</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b>From:</b> bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com [mailto:bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com]<b>On
Behalf Of </b>Andrew Wilby<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 05 May 2010 11:31<br>
<b>To:</b> bellhistorians@yahoogroups.com<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bell Historians] Have you voted yet?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div id=ygrp-text>
<p>Sam is quite right. These replies are not votes and are not weighed.<br>
To be taken any notice of at all they need to address the "material
issues"<br>
<br>
Peter Rivet may better to be able to help with this but the issue is, I
believe, whether or not the removal of the bells is counter to the interests
that the Grade 2* Listing seeks to preserve.<br>
<br>
If it were only Grade 2 then the the external appearance would only be the
issue.<br>
The star upgrades the status and in this case from what I have read mainly
concens the internal construction of the nave itself.<br>
<br>
Therefore it can be argued that the bells are not the focus of the listing and
in any case are not original having been recast.<br>
<br>
It follows therefore for the Committee that on balance, taking into
consideration all the other factors such as problems in making them safe, the
fact they they will never be sounded again et,c that it is reasonable to agree
to their removal.<br>
<br>
If it hasn't been done already, someone with the time might research a few
precedents where bells have been removed from listed buildings to demonstrate
that this is not a unique situation even if this Planning Authority hasn't had
one recently.<br>
<br>
Andrew<br>
<br>
On 05/05/2010 09:45, Sam0austin wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>I've seen your submission Richard. If anyone else is going to
vote then I suggest they could be more imaginative with their comments.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>"Bells are meant to be heard" & "They
should ring to the Glory of God" seem to have been done to death by
ringers, and I'm not sure if that will 'wash' with Stoke Council; remember they
are civ servants and may not be ringers, musicians or Christian. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>If someone knows how these planning departments work, I'm
sure a paragraph or two's worth of guidence for 'would-be' voters would be
welcomed.<br>
Aye<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>Sam<br>
Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
On 5 May 2010, at 09:31, Richard Grimmett <<a
href="mailto:richard@PjP5p0QX-Dhzu_lSQR7WRCJHlPyazZAoKKgJBB0B26W0YXynfQ4k7vyzXAA5ZnbmYpeayf__fslnjSE.yahoo.invalid">richard@PjP5p0QX-Dhzu_lSQR7WRCJHlPyazZAoKKgJBB0B26W0YXynfQ4k7vyzXAA5ZnbmYpeayf__fslnjSE.yahoo.invalid</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div id=ygrp-text>
<p>Robert Lewis wrote:<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> At 19:22 08/04/2008, you wrote:<br>
> Time is running out. 7th May is the deadline.<br>
> <br>
> No, not the general election ...<br>
> <br>
> To save Hanley Bells:<br>
<br>
They don't make it easy to check your submission is logged. I cannot <br>
find mine. I submitted weeks ago and received an acknowledgement about <br>
a fortnight later, but I cannot find it on the site.<br>
<br>
Clarrie<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:white'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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