<head>
<style type="text/css">
<!--
/* start of attachment style */
.ygrp-photo-title{
clear: both;
font-size: smaller;
height: 15px;
overflow: hidden;
text-align: center;
width: 75px;
}
div.ygrp-photo{
background-position: center;
background-repeat: no-repeat;
background-color: white;
border: 1px solid black;
height: 62px;
width: 62px;
}
div.photo-title
a,
div.photo-title a:active,
div.photo-title a:hover,
div.photo-title a:visited {
text-decoration: none;
}
div.attach-table div.attach-row {
clear: both;
}
div.attach-table div.attach-row div {
float: left;
/* margin: 2px;*/
}
p {
clear: both;
padding: 15px 0 3px 0;
overflow: hidden;
}
div.ygrp-file {
width: 30px;
valign: middle;
}
div.attach-table div.attach-row div div a {
text-decoration: none;
}
div.attach-table div.attach-row div div span {
font-weight: normal;
}
div.ygrp-file-title {
font-weight: bold;
}
/* end of attachment style */
-->
</style>
</head>
<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Verdana;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
code
{mso-style-priority:99;
font-family:"Courier New";}
pre
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char";
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";}
tt
{mso-style-priority:99;
font-family:"Courier New";}
span.HTMLPreformattedChar
{mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted";
font-family:Consolas;}
p.attach, li.attach, div.attach
{mso-style-name:attach;
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;}
p.bold, li.bold, div.bold
{mso-style-name:bold;
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
font-weight:bold;}
p.green, li.green, div.green
{mso-style-name:green;
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;
color:#628C2A;}
p.replbq, li.replbq, div.replbq
{mso-style-name:replbq;
mso-style-priority:99;
margin:3.0pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
p.ad, li.ad, div.ad
{mso-style-name:ad;
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
p.underline, li.underline, div.underline
{mso-style-name:underline;
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
p.ad1, li.ad1, div.ad1
{mso-style-name:ad1;
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
p.ad2, li.ad2, div.ad2
{mso-style-name:ad2;
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
margin-bottom:7.5pt;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
p.underline1, li.underline1, div.underline1
{mso-style-name:underline1;
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.yshortcuts
{mso-style-name:yshortcuts;}
span.yshortcuts1
{mso-style-name:yshortcuts1;
font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;
font-weight:bold;}
span.yshortcuts2
{mso-style-name:yshortcuts2;
font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;
font-weight:normal;}
span.EmailStyle34
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-GB link=blue vlink=purple>
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<br><br>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I’m sure this is simply a case (as many others) of a greatly exaggerated <b>approximate</b> weight. Besides, Sharpe’s Berkshire (p.363) shows that the 1624 bell replaced by the present tenor in 1821 was originally 14-1-21 (as recorded in 1624) – so the present bell was most likely of about the same weight when originally supplied (and as we know 13-2-21 when delivered at Loughborough in 1929, and now 13-0-23).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>So the 18 cwt in Thatcham’s case is, surely, just an approximate value (not an exact weight). If you look at tenor weights (where the bells then and now are the same) in old editions of Dove, you’ll quickly see how approximate weights were seldom other than greatly in excess of the subsequently discovered actual weight (a striking instance is Church Honeybourne, reputed 19.75cwt, actual 12-1-0). Edington priory was one exception (estimated 23 cwt, and actually heavier at 25-0-6 before tuning etc – now 24-0-24). <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>There’s a lot of mythology about fraudulent founders inflating weights by including clappers, headstocks, old boots (no, not really!) etc. Customers weren’t that dim (and the holders of purse strings were always pretty vigilant about not being overcharged) and I think it’s fair to say that few such instances can be proved. I do agree that clappers were sometimes included, although I’m not sure I’d accept that it was common practice.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>It is true that headstocks and clappers are often included in carriage weights – and occasionally these have been wrongly taken to be the nett weights of the bells. But that’s an interpretation issue – not one of fraudulent or exaggerated weighing.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>As to the short (100lbs) and long cwt (112lbs) issue, I've made quite a study of metal prices based on checking the maths of bellfounders’ bills – and the number of instances of bells being weighed in short cwts is very small indeed (only one in fact, although the list of qualifying samples – where the documentation provides concrete evidence – isn’t very large). The other day, incidentally, I did some checking of weights recorded for the old bells of Hailes Abbey in 1556 – and the maths showed that they were in long cwts.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>The final point to make, of course, is about the accuracy and reliability of weighing equipment. Some discrepancies are accountable for on this basis. I've seen accounts of bells being weighed by all sorts of methods – the most interesting case I can think of being a bell at Clifford (Herefs) in the early C18 weighed using a balance, with stones, anvils etc being piled on the other end, the bell weight being calculated by adding up the weights of those items (e.g. one large flat stone 134lbs).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Even from the main foundries, there are plenty of instances of bells being charged out at one weight and weighed back at something rather different (e.g. Offenham tenor supplied by John Rudhall in 1830 at 11-1-16, in to Taylors in 1897 at 11-1-6 and out at 11-0-20 after tuning, back again in 1925 at 11-0-12, and out at 10-3-2 after canon removal). It’s rare to have quite so many recorded weights for one bell, but this nicely illustrates the point that differences of 8-10 lbs occur when there should have been no change between weighings.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Just some reflections on rather too much time spent investigating such things!!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><i><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#5B9BD5'>Chris Pickford<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p></div></div>
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<br>
<br>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<div width="1" style="color: white; clear: both;"/>__._,_.___</div>
<div id="fromDMARC" style="clear:both; margin-top: 10px;">
<hr style="height:2px ; border-width:0; color:#E3E3E3; background-color:#E3E3E3;">
Posted by: "Chris Pickford" <c.j.pickford.t21@btinternet.com> <hr style="height:2px ; border-width:0; color:#E3E3E3; background-color:#E3E3E3;">
</div>
<!-- Start Recommendations -->
<!-- End Recommendations -->
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<img src="http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97476590/grpId=5029388/grpspId=1707285820/msgId=20265/stime=1505729975" width="1" height="1"> <br>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<br>
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<div id="ygrp-vital" style="background-color: #f2f2f2; font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; padding: 10px;">
<span id="vithd" style="font-weight: bold; color: #333; text-transform: uppercase; "><a href="https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/bellhistorians/info;_ylc=X3oDMTJlZm52czR0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzUwMjkzODgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3Mjg1ODIwBHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTUwNTcyOTk3NQ--" style="text-decoration: none;">Visit Your Group</a></span>
<ul style="list-style-type: none; margin: 0; padding: 0; display: inline;">
</ul>
</div>
<div id="ft" style="font-family: Arial; font-size: 11px; margin-top: 5px; padding: 0 2px 0 0; clear: both;">
<a href="https://groups.yahoo.com/neo;_ylc=X3oDMTJkNGxyazd0BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzUwMjkzODgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA3Mjg1ODIwBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxNTA1NzI5OTc1" style="float: left;"><img src="http://l.yimg.com/ru/static/images/yg/img/email/new_logo/logo-groups-137x15.png" height="15" width="137" alt="Yahoo! Groups" style="border: 0;"/></a>
<div style="color: #747575; float: right;"> • <a href="https://info.yahoo.com/privacy/us/yahoo/groups/details.html" style="text-decoration: none;">Privacy</a> • <a href="mailto:bellhistorians-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe" style="text-decoration: none;">Unsubscribe</a> • <a href="https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/" style="text-decoration: none;">Terms of Use</a> </div>
</div>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
</div> <!-- ygrp-msg -->
<br>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<div style="color: white; clear: both;"/>__,_._,___</div>
</body></html>