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<font face="Times New Roman">Thanks Richard for your detailed and
thoughtful reply.<br>
<br>
In short, I accept almost all you say.<br>
<br>
</font><br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 27/01/2022 20:57, Richard Smith
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:alpine.LRH.2.02.2201271739300.29128@sphinx.mythic-beasts.com"><br>
I'd certainly accept that Battell could have composed a tune for a
clock chime – presupposing this is indeed a tune – but I don't
find idea that the figures for the chime could have acted as kind
of personal monogram at all convincing. The figures are poorly
laid out and with no style. They look purely functional to me, as
though they were written for a purpose rather than for posterity.
<br>
</blockquote>
Initially I thought 'good point, one I had overlooked' - but on
another look I still think I could (only could) be right on this
point. True, the figures have no 'style' (I'd prefer the term
flourish) compared to the name, but neither does the year. The
latter is scribed with firm emphasis, yet it is just as wonky as the
other numbers. And for all its flourishes, the signature is even
more wonky, or rather awkward.<br>
<br>
I would now suggest that perhaps Mr. Battell actually could not
write very well. His name looks like it has been copied from some
other written example, and done so without confidence. If so, the
most obvious source would be an official document, on which he has
put his illiterate mark and then the scribe or clerk has written his
name either side of it.Then Mr. Battell has copied both here. The
source was not his will, unless he wrote it or an early version of
it before 1641 (quite possible).<br>
<br>
However much the numerals look untidy to us, the first numbers of
each line do all agree to a (slanting) starting point, reminiscent
of slanted handwriting neatly laid out on a page. This may seem at
odds with him being essentially illiterate, but again he could be
copying from memory a source written by someone else. Lastly, all
the 4s do have a strong emphasis, suggesting an awareness of visual
patterns, which could be the sort of mind able to compose four bars
of music.<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:alpine.LRH.2.02.2201271739300.29128@sphinx.mythic-beasts.com">I'm
probably now about to be completely misled...<br>
<br>
Oh dear. There is a technical term for describing the this quote<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
I thought as much. Clearly a subject I know little about, hence
turning to Wikipedia in the assumption that I could at least check
basic facta like dates; and I clearly did get misled! But thankyou
for your very detailed, careful, and interesting explanation.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:alpine.LRH.2.02.2201271739300.29128@sphinx.mythic-beasts.com">
<blockquote type="cite">Could there be some distant echo of a
connection between the 6/8 here and
<br>
the 8/6/8/6 metre of the inscription? A common origin perhaps?
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
... I'm not sure what that connection might be.
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Probably nothing more than a subconscious sense of rhythm.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:alpine.LRH.2.02.2201271739300.29128@sphinx.mythic-beasts.com">
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">One thought I had was that maybe the
numbers 1 to 4 refer not to four bells
<br>
but to the four steps of a four-step chiming sequence, i.e. all
the 1s are
<br>
to be struck first, followed by the 2s etc.; and the actual
positions of the
<br>
digits (either 6 or 8 of them) might refer to the individual
'bells' (of a
<br>
smaller chime rather than the main ring of a church). This would
mean that
<br>
most of the steps consisted of more than one note, a bit like a
Swiss
<br>
musical box (and didn't church chimes also use pinned barrels?).
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
I'm afraid I'm not following you here. However in answer to your
last point, yes, church clocks did sometimes have chiming barrels
at this point, and if you're asking whether this would have
allowed several bells to strike together, then yes, it would – at
least in principle. Whether the timing of the hammers would have
been accurate enough that they actually did sound together is
another question, and my suspicion is not.
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Yes, I accept that my thought is almost certainly not valid, and I
almost didn't include it. But since you don't understand, I should
try to explain it just for the sake of clarity.<br>
<br>
The positions of the numbers in each row do not refer to musical
notes in a chronological sequence.<br>
They refer to a set of 'bells' chimes, carillons, whatever, arranged
in an order.<br>
That order might be from the lowest note to the highest, i.e. tenor
to treble, but we have no way of knowing.<br>
Each row represents one quarter of the whole chime, just as with all
clocks which chime the quarters.<br>
The sequence of notes within each quarter is represented by the
values of the numbers.<br>
<br>
So, if we assume the eight positions equate to CDEFGABC', then the
sequence of 'notes' in the first quarter would be<br>
<br>
First struck 'note: E and B<br>
Second ditto: F and G<br>
Third ditto: D and H<br>
Fourth: C and C'<br>
<br>
Of course, it might not be based on CDE... at all but some other
sequence.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:alpine.LRH.2.02.2201271739300.29128@sphinx.mythic-beasts.com">Maybe
the last two (or first two, or last and first) 'bells' were not
used
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">in the six-figure lines?
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
In which case, why are they there? Also, the biggest piece of
evidence supporting these figures being a tune is that the line
lengths are consistent with common metre. If some of the notes
are not used, that's no longer the case.
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Firstly, we must be thinking of different aspects because I was
suggesting an explanation of why they are <i>not </i>there. In
lines 2 and 4, there are only 6 numerals, therefore the seventh and
eighth are not there. Secondly, this can easily fit with common
metre is the absent notes are replaced by pauses, which is what I
thought likely.<br>
<br>
I was just trying to suggest that if the 8-digit sequence is
CDEFGABC', then the 6-digit sequence of half the lines could be
CDEFGA, EFGABC', or even DEFGAB, with pauses substituted where
appropriate.<br>
<br>
<br>
Lastly, I very much appreciate the time you put into your reply.<br>
<br>
Lawrence<br>
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