<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Helvetica;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Aptos;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Aptos",sans-serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle19
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:windowtext;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;
mso-ligatures:none;}
@page WordSection1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-GB link=blue vlink=purple style='word-wrap:break-word'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Carl asks about the feasibility of recording and reporting on former bells and collections of bells. As he rightly says, Dove is focussed on what is in existence now, however in the background the Dove Team is able to record bells/collections that are no-longer in existence. This is an area for future development, both in terms of the design of the database, and the gathering of data. In the first instance we’ll be recording lost full-circle rings in order to drive the corresponding tables in the published book appendices. In time, it will be possible to grow this data set. However, as Carl says, the history of these things goes back centuries, with many unknowns, so we’ll never get a complete dataset. It is a huge job!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0F243E;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual'>Dickon Love</span></b><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#0F243E'><o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual'>Bromley, Kent<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-ligatures:standardcontextual'>07983 352279<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> Bell-historians <bell-historians-bounces@lists.ringingworld.co.uk> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Carl S Zimmerman<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, July 20, 2024 6:46 PM<br><b>To:</b> Bell Historians <bell-historians@lists.ringingworld.co.uk><br><b>Cc:</b> c.j.pickford.t21@btinternet.com<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bell Historians] Oldest set of six?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Chris's remarks prompt me to raise a related question. While Dove Online constitutes a splendid inventory of existing rings and their component bells, and provides the basis for extensive statistical analyses of that inventory, how would one go about developing statistical analyses for earlier points in the history of change ringing, or for historical trends?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Such analyses are quite possible and practical for the histories of carillons and chimes in North America, because the TowerBells database describes each known present or former instrument in terms of the phases of its technological history. Also, the total historical period is relatively short -- just over a century for traditional carillons, and less than two centuries for chimes of all types. One example of the type of analysis that can be done is here: <a href="http://www.towerbells.org/data/IXNATRyrHistory.html" target="_blank">http://www.towerbells.org/data/IXNATRyrHistory.html</a> (A lot more is possible; I just haven't gotten a round tuit!)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>The situation is much different in the ringing world, where some records go back for more than four centuries. County books undoubtedly provide partial snapshots as of their various publication dates, and surviving histories of individual towers. What else can be done, or has been done, in the way of historical statistical analyses?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Carl Scott Zimmerman, Campanologist <br>Saint Louis, Missouri, USA -<br> - 19th c. home of at least 37 bell founders or resellers <br>Webmaster for <a href="http://www.TowerBells.org">www.TowerBells.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><div id="ydpa9997280yahoo_quoted_2224388385"><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>On Saturday, July 20, 2024 at 01:47:56 AM CDT, c.j.pickford.t21--- via Bell-historians <<a href="mailto:bell-historians@lists.ringingworld.co.uk">bell-historians@lists.ringingworld.co.uk</a>> wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div id=ydpa9997280yiv7869751171><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>Oldest SURVIVING ring of six. <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>I always feel that such qualifying adjectives limit the true significance of such claims. By 1612 there were quite a lot of rings of six in existence (although in 1552 there were far fewer - but some) <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>Important and interesting as a survival, but in the historical narrative Harwell's significance is minor<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>Chris Pickford <br><br>Sent from my Huawei phone<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div id=ydpa9997280yiv7869751171yqt42064><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'><br><br>-------- Original Message --------<br>Subject: Re: [Bell Historians] Oldest set of six?<br>From: John Harrison <br>To: <a href="mailto:bell-historians@lists.ringingworld.co.uk">bell-historians@lists.ringingworld.co.uk</a><br>CC: <o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>Richard<br><br>Thanks for the comprehensive answer. In fact after Tim prompted me to<br>download data and do offline searches I downloaded all bells up to 1612 in<br>rings of 6+ into a spreadsheet and added a function to check each<br>place/dedication with the entry 6 rows above. Only Harwell came through<br>that filter so not only does it have the oldest back six it also has the<br>oldest set of six.<br><br>-- <br>John Harrison<br>Website <a href="http://jaharrison.me.uk">http://jaharrison.me.uk</a><br>Using 4té and ARMX6, both running RISC OS<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Bell-historians mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Bell-historians@lists.ringingworld.co.uk">Bell-historians@lists.ringingworld.co.uk</a><br><a href="https://lists.ringingworld.co.uk/listinfo/bell-historians">https://lists.ringingworld.co.uk/listinfo/bell-historians</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></blockquote></div></div></div></div><div id=ydpa9997280yqt21661><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#26282A'>_______________________________________________<br>Bell-historians mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Bell-historians@lists.ringingworld.co.uk" target="_blank">Bell-historians@lists.ringingworld.co.uk</a><br><a href="https://lists.ringingworld.co.uk/listinfo/bell-historians" target="_blank">https://lists.ringingworld.co.uk/listinfo/bell-historians</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div><div id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br /><table style="border-top: 1px solid #D3D4DE;"><tr><td style="width: 55px; padding-top: 13px;"><a href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank"><img src="https://s-install.avcdn.net/ipm/preview/icons/icon-envelope-tick-green-avg-v1.png" alt="" width="46" height="29" style="width: 46px; height: 29px;"/></a></td><td style="width: 470px; padding-top: 12px; color: #41424e; font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; line-height: 18px;">Virus-free.<a href="http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient" target="_blank" style="color: #4453ea;">www.avg.com</a></td></tr></table><a href="#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width="1" height="1"> </a></div></body></html>