<div dir="ltr">The old bell frame should still exist, it was at The Passmore Edwards Museum London but apparently was moved to Woodham Ferrers County Council Museum in the 1980's. I haven't seen it since it was removed from the tower.It consists of four pits with the treble hung diagonally above.<div>Can't add anything about bell numbers prior to 1862.</div><div>David Sloman</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Sep 18, 2026 at 12:57 PM oliver Lee via Bell-historians <<a href="mailto:bell-historians@lists.ringingworld.co.uk">bell-historians@lists.ringingworld.co.uk</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="msg7093776761282485801">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
It's not a problem Chelmsford is only an Hour's bus ride for me and I would be more then happy to see what the record office have to say about them, I have always taken something of a passing interest in these bells too especially as it is one of the only towers
within the Brentwood area that I haven't had the pleasure of ringing at. I am also one of the Volunteer researchers at my local museum so I am quite used to helping people with enquiries so like I say it won't be any skin off my nose at all. </div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Regards </div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
Oliver lee </div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
P/s I would also recommend talking to David Sloman, he was bell advisor to the EACR at the time of the 1982 work and I'd imagine he's probably got a lot of information about the both the old frame and the bells themselves. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<b>From:</b> Bell-historians <<a href="mailto:bell-historians-bounces@lists.ringingworld.co.uk" target="_blank">bell-historians-bounces@lists.ringingworld.co.uk</a>> on behalf of Richard Smith via Bell-historians <<a href="mailto:bell-historians@lists.ringingworld.co.uk" target="_blank">bell-historians@lists.ringingworld.co.uk</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 18, 2026 09:52<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:bell-historians@lists.ringingworld.co.uk" target="_blank">bell-historians@lists.ringingworld.co.uk</a> <<a href="mailto:bell-historians@lists.ringingworld.co.uk" target="_blank">bell-historians@lists.ringingworld.co.uk</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Richard Smith <<a href="mailto:richard@ex-parrot.com" target="_blank">richard@ex-parrot.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Bell Historians] Navestock, Essex </div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:11pt"><br>
On Thu 17/09/2026 21:52, Oliver Lee via Bell-historians wrote:<br>
<br>
> According to a 1458 Inventory (also in Deedes and Walters) the tower had<br>
> a ring of three and a Sanctus bell so I'd imagine they were probably<br>
> made into four in 1637 when the present 3^rd and tenor were cast before<br>
> being augmented to five in 1862 by Mears,<br>
<br>
You may be right, but without further supporting evidence, this is very<br>
much a guess. It's not unusual for bells to be recast and rural rings<br>
of five were common long before 1862. Similarly, rings of four were<br>
common long before 1637. This date, when we know Miles Graye cast two<br>
bells for Navestock, coincides with when five-bell ringing was really<br>
catching on, and we see lots of augmentations to five at this sort of<br>
time. How do we know Graye didn't cast three bells, one of which needed<br>
recasting in 1862? I'm not saying this was the case, but it seems<br>
another plausible possibility.<br>
<br>
It's fine for historians to say they don't know, and this is generally<br>
preferable to weaving a narrative out of minimal information, as that<br>
then risks becoming accepted as the truth without further critical analysis.<br>
<br>
In this particular case, there are at least three places we could look<br>
for further evidence. The Whitechapel daybook for 1862 may mention<br>
whether or not an old treble was traded in. The frame that was removed<br>
in 1981 may have been described in enough detail to know whether it had<br>
five pits before 1862. The churchwardens' accounts and vestry minutes<br>
exist for the period leading up to the 1862 work, and will likely have<br>
entries for the 1862 work and earlier expenses which may indicate how<br>
many bells there were.<br>
<br>
Of course I'm not suggesting that anyone here should go out and look at<br>
these records for me, simply because I'm curious about them. But there<br>
are enough people on this list who do this type of research that it<br>
seemed worth asking whether anyone had found any additional evidence.<br>
<br>
RAS<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Bell-historians mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Bell-historians@lists.ringingworld.co.uk" target="_blank">Bell-historians@lists.ringingworld.co.uk</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.ringingworld.co.uk/listinfo/bell-historians" id="m_7093776761282485801OWAde399ac8-7f6a-de71-328a-71d691863738" target="_blank">https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ringingworld.co.uk%2Flistinfo%2Fbell-historians&data=05%7C02%7C%7Ccdd488354dbe47edfb8308df15622ca5%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C639253183539163592%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=c8HWXn3warduLiLf7SFVCykXjvENxbfdhAPEIifXbKU%3D&reserved=0</a><br>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Bell-historians mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Bell-historians@lists.ringingworld.co.uk" target="_blank">Bell-historians@lists.ringingworld.co.uk</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.ringingworld.co.uk/listinfo/bell-historians" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.ringingworld.co.uk/listinfo/bell-historians</a><br>
</div></blockquote></div>