[Bell Historians] Bells on Jersey and CBC Database project.

Wed Oct 31 09:39:56 GMT 2018

Would I ever blame David ??

G

From: bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com [mailto:bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: 31 October 2018 00:10
To: bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Bell Historians] Bells on Jersey and CBC Database project.

Now, Phil, surely the best thing to do would be to refer to “Church Bells of the Channel Islands” by me and Fred Sharpe, published by your own Association and still available!

You are perfectly correct in saying that there are three Anglican Churches (I take it that you are only referring to Anglican Churches) dedicated to St Martin in Jersey. They are those which you mention:

1. St Martin, S Martin le Vieux Parish Church. 1 bell 40.25”  12-3-18, badly cracked. Lester & Pack 1768. 6 plain canons. Not turned. Full details & photo on p.50 of my book.

2. St Martin, Gorey, S. Martin de Gouray. 1 bell  30” diameter  5-cwt. John Warner & Sons Ltd 1895. 4 Doncaster canons. Not turned. Full details on p.51

3. Grouville, S Martin de Grouville. 1 bell  43” diameter  14-cwt. Adolphe Havard, Villedieu 1881 (replacing the 1768 bell). 6 ornate canons. Not turned. Full details on p.22 

The underlined name is the name of the administrative parish, and as Phil says, it is rather confusing that the church at Gorey, in St Martin’s Parish, is dedicated to S. Martin.

The chapel-of-ease to Grouville,  at S Pierre la Rocque which you mention, does have a bell  c14” diameter by Warner 1852 (early for them).

Yes, the CBC spreadsheet has become a bit muddled with his list (George will no doubt blast me for saying so). The list above should assist in rectifying, but please don’t hesitate to get directly in touch – davidl.cawley at btinternet,com or ring me on 01227 479871.

Cheers

David

From: bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com [mailto:bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com] 
Sent: 30 October 2018 20:15
To: bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Bell Historians] Bells on Jersey and CBC Database project.

Dear Colleagues,

Please could anyone with good knowledge of the church bells of Jersey assist me in clarifying some entries in one of the CBC Bells Database spreadsheets I am working through for the project initiated by Graham Pledger earlier this year.

My understanding is that there are three churches dedicated to St. Martin in Jersey:

*	St Martin (a.k.a. St Martin le Vieux) – the ancient parish church of St Martin’s Parish – one of the twelve administrative parishes of the Island;
*	St Martin de Gouray – in the village or Gorey, which confusingly happens to be in St. Martin’s Parish (above);
*	St Martin de Grouville – the parish church of Grouville Parish, another of the twelve ancient parishes.

However the CBC spreadsheet (sourced from George Dawson) has four entries:

Winchester

CARE

Jersey

St Martin le Vieux

1 of 1

6

30

C

1895

John Warner & Sons

Winchester

CARE

Jersey

St Martin de Grouville

1 of 1

Yes

6

43

1881

A Havard

Winchester

CARE

41/410

Jersey

St Martin

1 of 1

Yes

6

40.25

12.3.18

1769

Lester & Pack, crack, Insc

DLC 9/99

Winchester

CARE

41/409

Jersey

St Martin, Gouray

1 of 1

NB:  There are also entries for St Peter La Roque and La Hougue Bie Chapels in Gorey, which are not part of this enquiry.

On-line sources for the three churches above give:

1.	St Martin (le Vieux):  https://www.theislandwiki.org/index.php/Official_history_of_St_Martin%27s_Parish_Church : “In 1768 the present bell was bought. It was still the custom to name church bells. This one was stamped in French: "I, Martin, for St Martin, have been founded in London in 1768.. Lester and Poch [sic] made me. I weigh 12 cwt 3 qr 18 lb" Lester and Poch's Whitechapel Foundry had a worldwide reputation. It sent bells to Russia, Germany and America. The 70 cwt bell for Canterbury Cathedral was made by them. The St Martin's bell has four coins of George II welded on it.”
2.	St Martin de Gouray:  https://www.stmartindegouraychurchjersey.co.uk/the-history-of-gouray-church :  “The tower has a clock and contains one bell cast by John Warner and Sons in London in 1895”..
3.	St Martin de Grouville: https://www.theislandwiki.org/index.php/History_of_Grouville_Parish_Church <https://www.theislandwiki..org/index.php/History_of_Grouville_Parish_Church>  :  “The bell is one of the finest in the Island and bears the inscription: J'ai este faite fondre a Londres par les paroissiens de Grouville an 1768 je paze 14 cwt 1 qr 2 lb. Ch de la Garde, Rector. Thos Labey, Constable. Frances Marett, Jean Hooper, Survts. Lester and Pack of London, fecit.”

[The underlining is mine]

Allowing for some lay misinterpretation of bellfounders names and bell inscription casting details, these histories suggest the entries in the CBC spreadsheet should read:

Winchester

CARE

41/402

Jersey

St Martin le Vieux

1 of 1

6

40.25

12.3.18

1768/9

Lester & Pack, crack, Insc

Winchester

CARE

41/409

Jersey

St Martin de Gouray

1 of 1

6

30

C

1895

John Warner & Sons

Winchester

CARE

41/410

Jersey

St Martin de Grouville

1 of 1

14.1.2

1768

Lester & Pack

However this doesn’t explain the reference to the 1881 A Havard (Villedieu) bell or where it is, or validate two Lester and Pack bells of the same date but different weights – unless the Grouville bell was recast in 1881 and the church history doesn’t record that recasting?

Can anyone please shed light on the situation?  (My DAC has no role in the Channel Islands).

Thx.

Phil

Phil Watts

Bells Advisor, Winchester Diocesan Advisory Committee for the Care of Churches

Tel: 023 8025 2015         E-mail:               pag.watts at btinternet.com

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