[Bell Historians] Holywood Church, Dumfriesshire

[Richard Offen]

What arrogance!

R

Sent from Richard Offen’s iPhone.
________________________________
From: Bell-historians <bell-historians-bounces at lists.ringingworld.co.uk> on behalf of Neal Dodge via Bell-historians <bell-historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk>
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2025 7:11:47 PM
To: Bell Historians <bell-historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk>
Cc: Neal Dodge <gtbartonbells at gmail.com>; Graham <gnabb50 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Bell Historians] Holywood Church, Dumfriesshire

The Times article free of paywall can be viewed here https://archive.ph/ILole
And the planning case & documents https://www.dpea.scotland.gov.uk/CaseDetails.aspx?id=125736
Attached is a picture of one of the bells which is claimed to have been cast between 1160 and 1176

The full study on the two bells authored by the owner of the church can be found here.
https://www.hiddenheritage.info/_files/ugd/66c3ba_bd355640646445088dd6c72ea132c141.pdf

Including these telling extracts...
"Some bell conservationists had regrettably displayed partisan attitudes, which compromised their reliability. For these reasons the authors were conscious not to make assumptions, based on bell form and context in which the bells had existed, but concentrate on the evidence the bells did present, ie., what was written or exhibited on the bronze itself."
"It felt further pursuance of bell experts, and perhaps an unqualified opinion was best avoided, particularly as it was the legend on the bells, and the legend of the sponsor, not the form of the bells, that shaped the study’s conclusions"

On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 at 16:56, Graham via Bell-historians <bell-historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk<mailto:bell-historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk>> wrote:
oooh!  you are a tease Chris...🙂


Graham

07974743766


On Sun, 23 Feb 2025 at 16:54, c.j.pickford.t21--- via Bell-historians <bell-historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk<mailto:bell-historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk>> wrote:
There's quite a story here, running back several years before this latest twist.
The supposed value of of the bells is based on a historical study by the owners - and conclusions that several experienced bell historians have felt unable to endorse.
I shall say no more, but this is just to warn that the latest news is only part of a longer story.
Chris Pickford

Sent from my Huawei phone


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [Bell Historians] Holywood Church, Dumfriesshire
From: alan bagworth via Bell-historians
To: bell-historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk<mailto:bell-historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk>
CC: alan bagworth

Thought this might be of interest.

The Times on-line on Saturday 22 February in the Scotland section has a
report on two 'old' bells. The church was bought from the Church of
Scotland by a couple who have lowered the bells and put them into secure
storage as they feared they might be stolen. The local authority is now
ordering the couple to return the bells to the church. There are
pictures of the two bells which are believed to be linked to a
12th-century knight 'William le Riche'. Is there any recorded
information on these bells and can their date be predicted from their
profile?. The report suggests they may have an eight figure valuation.

Alan


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--
Many Thanks
Neal Dodge
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