From bill at hibberts.co.uk Tue Nov 4 13:36:54 2025 From: bill at hibberts.co.uk (bill at hibberts.co.uk) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2025 13:36:54 -0000 Subject: [Bell Historians] Bellframe at St Nicholas, Charlwood, Surrey Message-ID: <091201dc4d90$15e634f0$41b29ed0$@hibberts.co.uk> Can anyone help with dating the bellframe at this church? The frame was originally a four bell frame, modified later to add two more bells. I have attached a plan of the frame, and a photo of one of the original trusses. Key dates in the history of the church and bells are as follows: * The 1553 (sic) inventory gives four bells * According to an article in RW1972 pp693-694 the top of the central tower was built, or rebuilt, around 1660 * Stahlschmidt in 1884 gives 1 & 2 Janaway 1764, 3 Eldridge 1697, 4 Eldridge 1668, 5 Mears 1835, 6 Eldridge 1662 * In 1925, the Janaway and Mears bells were recast and the frame strengthened by Whitechapel. The design of the frame is not like that at St Nicolas, Great Bookham, built to house an Eldridge bell dated 1675. The Bookham frame has king-posts with braces, not scissor braces as at Charlwood. The extra truss inserted across the centre of the Charlwood frame to allow two more bells to hung is clearly an addition. The timber of the truss is less in section than the original frame and has clear parallel saw-marks. The lower member of this truss buts against one of the scissor braces, covering the securing pegs, and the halved joint at one end of the head is secured by a bolt. The corresponding joints at Bookham are secured with pegs and cotters. My conjectural history, based on no more information than presented above, is that the original frame held the 1553 bells (and is therefore at least that old), the 1553 bells were replaced by four Eldridge bells between 1662 and 1697, and the additional cross member was added in 1764 to support the Janaway bells. Has anyone with greater knowledge inspected Charlwood? Elphick doesn't refer to it in his Sussex book, though the tower is only a mile from the Sussex border. Regards, Bill H -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 20251103_161413.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2283271 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: charlwood_frame.png Type: image/png Size: 17354 bytes Desc: not available URL: From timjacksonemail at gmail.com Sat Nov 8 11:49:17 2025 From: timjacksonemail at gmail.com (Tim Jackson) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2025 11:49:17 +0000 Subject: [Bell Historians] =?utf-8?q?Barnwell_All_Saints_=28Northamptonsh?= =?utf-8?q?ire=29_=E2=80=93_four_bells_sold_c=2E1821?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Suzanna, We have been unable to find any further details about these bells. There is nothing in the Dove database. There is no entry on the master list of Lost Rings, maintained by the Keltek Trust: https://www.keltektrust.org.uk/downloads.html And, although there is an entry on the Peterborough Diocesan Guild church bell inventory, it contains no new information over and above what you have discovered for yourself: https://inventory.pdg.org.uk/Lostsoldorremovedbells.html I am copying this reply to the Bell Historians group in case anyone can help. Best wishes, Tim Jackson Dove Steward On Wed, 8 Oct 2025 at 13:31, wrote: > Dear Dove?s Guide Research Team, > > > > I am researching the former church of *Barnwell All Saints*, > Northamptonshire, which was demolished around *1821*. > > According to Thomas North?s *Church Bells of Northamptonshire* (1878), > the church then possessed *four bells*, sold by auction when the building > was dismantled. > > > > I am attempting to trace whether any of these bells were: > > > > - transferred to nearby parishes (Oundle, Titchmarsh, Hemington, > Wigsthorpe, Southwick, or Barnwell St Andrew), or > - recast and incorporated elsewhere under a known founder (e.g., > Norris, Newcombe, or later C18?C19 founders). > > > > If Dove?s Guide or your bell historian network holds any record or note > linking *Barnwell All Saints* with another parish?s bells, I would be > most grateful to know. > > > Any references, foundry notes, or pointers to local ringers? archives > would be deeply appreciated. > > With many thanks for your time and for maintaining such an invaluable > resource, > > > > > > I would also be happy to share any findings or updates for inclusion in > Dove?s Guide, should this help clarify the historical record for the > county?s lost churches. > best > > Suzanna Grant-Kejairi > > 0033620472042 > > This communication is intended only for the use of the individual or > entity to whom it is addressed and others authorised by the sender to > receive it. 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