From georgebellringer at gmail.com Sun Mar 1 10:59:51 2026 From: georgebellringer at gmail.com (georgebellringer at gmail.com) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2026 10:59:51 -0000 Subject: [Bell Historians] A Taylor bell in western Canada In-Reply-To: References: <270606068.2339263.1772256056999.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <270606068.2339263.1772256056999@mail.yahoo.com> <1494130341.2337800.1772257554417@mail.yahoo.com> <340b01dca881$9f328cd0$dd97a670$@gmail.com>

Message-ID: <002e01dca96a$878c7930$96a56b90$@gmail.com> 1912 Vernon Public Buildings Canada - British Columbia 1 7.0.16 900 A 34" 180/227 George Dawson From: Bell-historians On Behalf Of Ken Webb via Bell-historians Sent: 28 February 2026 15:46 To: Chris Pickford ; Bell Historians Cc: Ken Webb Subject: Re: [Bell Historians] A Taylor bell in western Canada This confirms a clock at Vernon Post Office was provided in 1912 /1913 by Smiths. https://www.readersdigest.ca/travel/canada/vernon-b-c-post-office-clock/ Ken On 28/02/2026 09:39, Chris Pickford wrote: As soon as I can grab 15 minutes at home to look at this properly (and read the article rather than just glance at it) I'm sure I'll be able to make sense of this. I only had time to check the index and cut and paste the text before leaving this morning C Sent from Outlook for Android _____ From: Ken Webb Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2026 7:35:51 AM To: Bell Historians

Cc: Chris Pickford Subject: Re: [Bell Historians] A Taylor bell in western Canada The article mentions Vernon as the original location. Ken On Sat, 28 Feb 2026, 07:12 Chris Pickford via Bell-historians, > wrote: Here?s the text (i.e. without the copyright photos) Headline: Old church bell will peal back time By Ron Seymour The Kelowna Courier An old church bell now hanging in a downtown Kelowna garage will resound in a new South Pandosy urban plaza. The 850 lb. brass bell, cast in England in 1912, has been in the care of 75-year-old twin brothers Clinton and Orison Wood since St. Paul?s United Church on Lakeshore Road was demolished more than a decade ago. ?It's connected to our front door by an electric clapper, and we've been using it as a doorbell all these years,? Clinton said with a laugh during a Thursday interview. ?Even though it's in the garage, the bell is very loud, so anyone who rings our front door gets quite a shaking up.? The Wood brothers are glad the bell is destined to return to the property where St. Paul?s stood for 55 years before being demolished in 2015. Local developer Shane Worman plans to erect the bell in the middle of an urban public square in a commercial redevelopment approved for the property this week by city council. ?That bell means a lot to our family,? Orison Wood said. ?I always think of our father when it rings. But it sounds like a good idea to get it back where a lot of people can enjoy it again.? Trustees of Central Okanagan United Church, which owns the bell, have approved its transfer to Worman. ?We?re delighted that Shane wants to do this. It?s such a lovely plan, bringing the bell back to where it belongs,? church trustee Beryl Itani said. The bell was cast by the John Taylor Bell Foundry in Loughborough, England. The still-in-business company, established in 1839, is described on its website as the last remaining bell foundry in the United Kingdom. Builders of the Dominion Post Office in Vernon placed an order for the bell and it was on top of that building until its demolition in the mid-?50s. The Wood brothers? father, Ernest Orison Wood, arranged through friends in the construction industry to have the bell shipped to Kelowna for St. Paul?s United Church, which opened in 1958. But when the bell arrived, church leaders didn?t have the money to build a proper bell tower. So the bell sat, half-forgotten on a wooden pallet behind the church for almost 20 years while an electronic bell was used on Sundays to summon parishioners. Its neglect, unsurprisingly, rankled Ernest Wood. ?He didn?t like that the church board just kept tabling the issue, hemming and hawing, but there wasn?t much he could do about it,? Clinton Wood said. Ernest Orison Wood died in 1976, at age 90, never having seen the bell put into service at the church. After his death, his widow Jessie spearheaded a fundraising campaign to construct a large frame and headstock. In 1980, the bell was finally hoisted to a place of prominence near the church?s front door. But it was still a silent bell. It wasn't rung for another 19 years. The original clapper had long since been lost. And it wasn't until a church member, Adriaan Boek, went to Holland and found a suitable clapper that the bell finally gonged for the first time in Kelowna, in 1999. A headline at the time in The Kelowna Courier said: ?Bell rings for Jessie?. >From 1990 to 2014, the bell rang on the hour throughout the week, heard throughout a large part of the South Pandosy neighborhood. It was not only a community landmark; it served as something of a headstone, as the Wood family buried Ernest?s ashes at its base. The church was demolished in 2015 to make way for an ill-fated commercial and resdential project planned by the congregation. Before the wrecking ball was summoned, however, the Wood brothers got a jackhammer, cut through the bell tower?s concrete base, and brought their father?s ashes home for safekeeping. After the church's demolition, the congregation's ambitious redevelopment plan fell apart with soaring costs, and the land was sold for $5.5 million. "We were all sad when we left the building for the last time, we shed some tears," Clinton Wood says. "And then when the whole plan collapsed it was really a devastating thing. A lot of people were really angry and left the church, but we didn't. You don't throw away your church because of an unfortunate circumstance that didn't work out." Local builder Shane Worman bought the former St. Paul?s site a few years ago and won final approval this week for a project consisting of three buildings arrayed around an urban plaza open to the public. The development has less density than would have been possible on the site, and considerably more trees and landscaping than required - features that prompted Coun. Luke Stack to describe the project as ?perfect? during Monday?s council meeting. The Wood brothers, who both now devoutly attend Central Okanagan United Church in downtown Kelowna, are pleased with the bell's pending relocation back to the South Pandosy neighborhood. And they think their father will be too. ?I know this for sure,? Clinton Wood said, ?Dad will be watching from the other side.? I haven?t had time to identify this particular bell in the Taylor records (1912) yet, but around that time Taylors supplied numerous clock bells ? mostly about 7 cwt - for public buildings in Canada through clockmakers Smith of Derby who were contracted to supply the clocks. This must be one of them, but it?s not indexed as ?Kelowna?. Chris Pickford Knighton (Powys), UK _______________________________________________ Bell-historians mailing list Bell-historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk https://lists.ringingworld.co.uk/listinfo/bell-historians -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From oliverbellringer at outlook.com Wed Mar 11 23:13:43 2026 From: oliverbellringer at outlook.com (oliver Lee) Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2026 23:13:43 +0000 Subject: [Bell Historians] Gillett and Johnston records Message-ID: Recently I have taken an interest in the old pre war 12 at St Mary Le Bow and as these where mostly recast by Gillett and Johnston in 1933 if was wondering if any of their original records survive?, I know that their tuning books are still in Existence but I have never heard anyone say anything else about their other records although I can only assume that they survive in some form or another and I think I can remember my friend Kye leaver saying that he had seen some records in the croydon Library that included some frame plans!. I would be very interested if anyone else can add to this Regards Oliver lee P/s does anyone happen to have a copy of the Old frame at Bow to hand? I'm convinced that the modern frame is a carbon copy replica of it! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pickford5040 at gmail.com Thu Mar 12 06:56:38 2026 From: pickford5040 at gmail.com (pickford5040 at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2026 06:56:38 -0000 Subject: [Bell Historians] Gillett and Johnston records In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <07b401dcb1ed$60471930$20d54b90$@gmail.com> The tuning books are at Croydon Library/Archives, along with just a few other records (nothing very useful, to be honest). These were in the custody of a successor company - Cope Allman - until Alan Buswell persuaded them to deposit them at Croydon. Alan has done sterling work with these records for many decades now - and has a database with all the main details (weights, diameters, tuning figures etc). The order books and quite a lot of other clockmaking records - job files, photographs - are with the current G&J clockmaking firms. There is limited access by arrangement. I have used them from time to time, but not for quite a while. I doubt, though, if the surviving records represent much more than (say) 5% of what once existed - and the great bulk of a once great company archive has almost certainly been lost As I recall there's a large scale drawing of Bow tower in the ringing room at Edinburgh Cathedral with an inset drawing showing the plan of the frame. Chris Pickford From: Bell-historians On Behalf Of oliver Lee via Bell-historians Sent: 11 March 2026 23:14 To: 'Bell Historians' Cc: oliver Lee Subject: [Bell Historians] Gillett and Johnston records Recently I have taken an interest in the old pre war 12 at St Mary Le Bow and as these where mostly recast by Gillett and Johnston in 1933 if was wondering if any of their original records survive?, I know that their tuning books are still in Existence but I have never heard anyone say anything else about their other records although I can only assume that they survive in some form or another and I think I can remember my friend Kye leaver saying that he had seen some records in the croydon Library that included some frame plans!. I would be very interested if anyone else can add to this Regards Oliver lee P/s does anyone happen to have a copy of the Old frame at Bow to hand? I'm convinced that the modern frame is a carbon copy replica of it! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From michael at oldlight.co.uk Thu Mar 12 09:08:40 2026 From: michael at oldlight.co.uk (Michael A Williams) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2026 09:08:40 +0000 Subject: [Bell Historians] Gillett and Johnston records In-Reply-To: <07b401dcb1ed$60471930$20d54b90$@gmail.com> References: <07b401dcb1ed$60471930$20d54b90$@gmail.com> Message-ID: There are tower plans as a set of blueprints, produced by G&J and dating from 1933, in the ASCY Library. I've not studied them in any great detail but I can look at them when I am next there to see if they may be of interest. Michael (ASCY Librarian) On Thu, 12 Mar 2026 at 06:57, Chris Pickford via Bell-historians < bell-historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk> wrote: > The tuning books are at Croydon Library/Archives, along with just a few > other records (nothing very useful, to be honest). These were in the > custody of a successor company ? Cope Allman ? until Alan Buswell persuaded > them to deposit them at Croydon. Alan has done sterling work with these > records for many decades now ? and has a database with all the main details > (weights, diameters, tuning figures etc). > > > > The order books and quite a lot of other clockmaking records ? job files, > photographs ? are with the current G&J clockmaking firms. There is limited > access by arrangement. I have used them from time to time, but not for > quite a while. > > > > I doubt, though, if the surviving records represent much more than (say) > 5% of what once existed ? and the great bulk of a once great company > archive has almost certainly been lost > > > > As I recall there?s a large scale drawing of Bow tower in the ringing room > at Edinburgh Cathedral with an inset drawing showing the plan of the frame. > > > > *Chris Pickford* > > > > *From:* Bell-historians > *On Behalf Of *oliver Lee via Bell-historians > *Sent:* 11 March 2026 23:14 > *To:* 'Bell Historians' > *Cc:* oliver Lee > *Subject:* [Bell Historians] Gillett and Johnston records > > > > Recently I have taken an interest in the old pre war 12 at St Mary Le Bow > and as these where mostly recast by Gillett and Johnston in 1933 if was > wondering if any of their original records survive?, I know that their > tuning books are still in Existence but I have never heard anyone say > anything else about their other records although I can only assume that > they survive in some form or another and I think I can remember my friend > Kye leaver saying that he had seen some records in the croydon Library that > included some frame plans!. I would be very interested if anyone else can > add to this > > Regards > > Oliver lee > > P/s does anyone happen to have a copy of the Old frame at Bow to hand? I'm > convinced that the modern frame is a carbon copy replica of it! > _______________________________________________ > Bell-historians mailing list > Bell-historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk > https://lists.ringingworld.co.uk/listinfo/bell-historians > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gtbartonbells at gmail.com Thu Mar 12 12:46:44 2026 From: gtbartonbells at gmail.com (Neal Dodge) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2026 12:46:44 +0000 Subject: [Bell Historians] Gillett and Johnston records In-Reply-To: References: <07b401dcb1ed$60471930$20d54b90$@gmail.com> Message-ID: Attached is a picture of the drawing in the Edinburgh cathedral ringing room. The plan third from the bottom on the right is the relevant one, but limited frame details. Many Thanks Neal Dodge On Thu, 12 Mar 2026, 09:10 Michael A Williams, wrote: > There are tower plans as a set of blueprints, produced by G&J and dating > from 1933, in the ASCY Library. I've not studied them in any great detail > but I can look at them when I am next there to see if they may be of > interest. > > Michael > (ASCY Librarian) > > On Thu, 12 Mar 2026 at 06:57, Chris Pickford via Bell-historians < > bell-historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk> wrote: > >> The tuning books are at Croydon Library/Archives, along with just a few >> other records (nothing very useful, to be honest). These were in the >> custody of a successor company ? Cope Allman ? until Alan Buswell persuaded >> them to deposit them at Croydon. Alan has done sterling work with these >> records for many decades now ? and has a database with all the main details >> (weights, diameters, tuning figures etc). >> >> >> >> The order books and quite a lot of other clockmaking records ? job files, >> photographs ? are with the current G&J clockmaking firms. There is limited >> access by arrangement. I have used them from time to time, but not for >> quite a while. >> >> >> >> I doubt, though, if the surviving records represent much more than (say) >> 5% of what once existed ? and the great bulk of a once great company >> archive has almost certainly been lost >> >> >> >> As I recall there?s a large scale drawing of Bow tower in the ringing >> room at Edinburgh Cathedral with an inset drawing showing the plan of the >> frame. >> >> >> >> *Chris Pickford* >> >> >> >> *From:* Bell-historians >> *On Behalf Of *oliver Lee via Bell-historians >> *Sent:* 11 March 2026 23:14 >> *To:* 'Bell Historians' >> *Cc:* oliver Lee >> *Subject:* [Bell Historians] Gillett and Johnston records >> >> >> >> Recently I have taken an interest in the old pre war 12 at St Mary Le Bow >> and as these where mostly recast by Gillett and Johnston in 1933 if was >> wondering if any of their original records survive?, I know that their >> tuning books are still in Existence but I have never heard anyone say >> anything else about their other records although I can only assume that >> they survive in some form or another and I think I can remember my friend >> Kye leaver saying that he had seen some records in the croydon Library that >> included some frame plans!. I would be very interested if anyone else can >> add to this >> >> Regards >> >> Oliver lee >> >> P/s does anyone happen to have a copy of the Old frame at Bow to hand? >> I'm convinced that the modern frame is a carbon copy replica of it! >> _______________________________________________ >> Bell-historians mailing list >> Bell-historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk >> https://lists.ringingworld.co.uk/listinfo/bell-historians >> > _______________________________________________ > Bell-historians mailing list > Bell-historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk > https://lists.ringingworld.co.uk/listinfo/bell-historians > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 37438.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2468067 bytes Desc: not available URL: From richard at ex-parrot.com Thu Mar 12 13:23:49 2026 From: richard at ex-parrot.com (Richard Smith) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2026 13:23:49 +0000 Subject: [Bell Historians] Gillett and Johnston records In-Reply-To: References: <07b401dcb1ed$60471930$20d54b90$@gmail.com>

Message-ID: The drawings of St Mary le Bow that Neal forwarded from the Edinburgh Cathedral ringing room are very interesting. They show the ringing room one level further up the tower than the modern ringing room, and also the bells a bit higher than they are today. The louvres today are significantly above the level of the bells, and before the electrically operated sound control was installed in the last few years, you had to go up another short ladder from frame-side level to reach the walkway at the base of the louvres. It looks like the pre-War bells were roughly level with that walkway. What must have been the old ringing room ? now a void - has only one window, looking south over the nave roof. Old etchings of the church certainly suggest that no windows were bricked up when the church was rebuilt and strengthened after the war, and there's no evidence of that looking at the tower today. The photo of the ringing room in 1933 that was printed in Mark Regan's Ringing World article (1996, p.1296) shows a ringing room that looks very similar to the modern one. There's what looks like a door in the corner behind the treble, and a window, albeit with closed shutters, between 8 and 9 (This is a bit clearer if you look at a paper copy rather than the scans.) In today's ringing room, the window between 8 and 9 is the north-facing door on to the balcony overlooking Cheapside, and the door behind the treble leads to the staircase in the north-west corner of the tower, which continues up to the bell chamber and beyond. The problem is, if the 1933 ringing room is the modern void with only a south-facing window, and that is what we see between 8 and 9 in the photograph, then the rope circle is rotated 180?, and the door behind the treble cannot be the door on to the staircase. Clearly something is wrong. Either the ringing room had already been dropped down to its modern level by the time the photo was taken ? though I cannot see any indication of this in reports of the 1933 work ? or the shutters between 8 and 9 are not a window, or the door in the corner behind the treble does not go to the stairway. It's easy to believe the shutters might have been closed on a south-facing window in order to take the photo, if it was taken on a sunny day, so I don't think we can read anything into the shutters being closed. There is what looks like a bolt at the top of the shutters, so I don't think it's simply a piece of panelling that looks like shutters. Possibly the window shutters are actually the doors to an Ellacombe apparatus. I'm not aware that the church had one, but it wouldn't seem especially surprising. Another possibility is that the door behind the treble is actually a ringers' toilet or urinal. These were not uncommon, and would normally be found in the corner of a ringing room. But that's a guess too. Does anyone have any further information on this? RAS On Thu 12/03/2026 12:46, Neal Dodge via Bell-historians wrote: > > Attached is a picture of the drawing in the Edinburgh cathedral ringing > room. The plan third from the bottom on the right is the relevant one, > but limited frame details. > > Many Thanks > Neal Dodge > > On Thu, 12 Mar 2026, 09:10 Michael A Williams, > wrote: > > There are tower plans as a set of blueprints, produced by G&J and > dating from 1933, in the ASCY Library. I've not studied them in any > great detail but I can look at them when I am next there to see if > they may be of interest. > > Michael > (ASCY Librarian) > > On Thu, 12 Mar 2026 at 06:57, Chris Pickford via Bell-historians > historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk>> wrote: > > The tuning books are at Croydon Library/Archives, along with > just a few other records (nothing very useful, to be honest). > These were in the custody of a successor company ? Cope Allman ? > until Alan Buswell persuaded them to deposit them at Croydon. > Alan has done sterling work with these records for many decades > now ? and has a database with all the main details (weights, > diameters, tuning figures etc).____ > > __ __ > > The order books and quite a lot of other clockmaking records ? > job files, photographs ? are with the current G&J clockmaking > firms. There is limited access by arrangement. I have used them > from time to time, but not for quite a while. ____ > > __ __ > > I doubt, though, if the surviving records represent much more > than (say) 5% of what once existed ? and the great bulk of a > once great company archive has almost certainly been lost____ > > __ __ > > As I recall there?s a large scale drawing of Bow tower in the > ringing room at Edinburgh Cathedral with an inset drawing > showing the plan of the frame.____ > > __ __ > > */Chris Pickford/*____ > > __ __ > > *From:*Bell-historians bounces at lists.ringingworld.co.uk bounces at lists.ringingworld.co.uk>> *On Behalf Of *oliver Lee via > Bell-historians > *Sent:* 11 March 2026 23:14 > *To:* 'Bell Historians' historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk>> > *Cc:* oliver Lee > > *Subject:* [Bell Historians] Gillett and Johnston records____ > > __ __ > > Recently I have taken an interest in the old pre war 12 at St > Mary Le Bow and as these where mostly recast by Gillett and > Johnston in 1933 if was wondering if any of their original > records survive?, I know that their tuning books are still in > Existence but I have never heard anyone say anything else about > their other records although I can only assume that they survive > in some form or another and I think I can remember my friend Kye > leaver saying that he had seen some records in the croydon > Library that included some frame plans!. I would be very > interested if anyone else can add to this ____ > > Regards____ > > Oliver lee____ > > P/s does anyone happen to have a copy of the Old frame at Bow to > hand? I'm convinced that the modern frame is a carbon copy > replica of it!____ > > _______________________________________________ > Bell-historians mailing list > Bell-historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk> > https://lists.ringingworld.co.uk/listinfo/bell-historians > > > _______________________________________________ > Bell-historians mailing list > Bell-historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk> > https://lists.ringingworld.co.uk/listinfo/bell-historians lists.ringingworld.co.uk/listinfo/bell-historians> > > > _______________________________________________ > Bell-historians mailing list > Bell-historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk > https://lists.ringingworld.co.uk/listinfo/bell-historians From oliverbellringer at outlook.com Thu Mar 12 13:34:51 2026 From: oliverbellringer at outlook.com (oliver Lee) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2026 13:34:51 +0000 Subject: [Bell Historians] Gillett and Johnston records In-Reply-To: References: <07b401dcb1ed$60471930$20d54b90$@gmail.com>

Message-ID: I think it?s more then possible that the door behind 8 and 9 might have been an access into the back of the clock, older photos from pre 1933 show this being covered in clock wires along with some numbered plates which might have been the respective pull offs for the bells used. This is also clearly visible on a print of 1850 which shows the bells when they where a ten Oliver Sent from Outlook for iOS ________________________________ From: Bell-historians on behalf of Richard Smith via Bell-historians Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2026 1:23:49 PM To: bell-historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk Cc: Richard Smith Subject: Re: [Bell Historians] Gillett and Johnston records The drawings of St Mary le Bow that Neal forwarded from the Edinburgh Cathedral ringing room are very interesting. They show the ringing room one level further up the tower than the modern ringing room, and also the bells a bit higher than they are today. The louvres today are significantly above the level of the bells, and before the electrically operated sound control was installed in the last few years, you had to go up another short ladder from frame-side level to reach the walkway at the base of the louvres. It looks like the pre-War bells were roughly level with that walkway. What must have been the old ringing room ? now a void - has only one window, looking south over the nave roof. Old etchings of the church certainly suggest that no windows were bricked up when the church was rebuilt and strengthened after the war, and there's no evidence of that looking at the tower today. The photo of the ringing room in 1933 that was printed in Mark Regan's Ringing World article (1996, p.1296) shows a ringing room that looks very similar to the modern one. There's what looks like a door in the corner behind the treble, and a window, albeit with closed shutters, between 8 and 9 (This is a bit clearer if you look at a paper copy rather than the scans.) In today's ringing room, the window between 8 and 9 is the north-facing door on to the balcony overlooking Cheapside, and the door behind the treble leads to the staircase in the north-west corner of the tower, which continues up to the bell chamber and beyond. The problem is, if the 1933 ringing room is the modern void with only a south-facing window, and that is what we see between 8 and 9 in the photograph, then the rope circle is rotated 180?, and the door behind the treble cannot be the door on to the staircase. Clearly something is wrong. Either the ringing room had already been dropped down to its modern level by the time the photo was taken ? though I cannot see any indication of this in reports of the 1933 work ? or the shutters between 8 and 9 are not a window, or the door in the corner behind the treble does not go to the stairway. It's easy to believe the shutters might have been closed on a south-facing window in order to take the photo, if it was taken on a sunny day, so I don't think we can read anything into the shutters being closed. There is what looks like a bolt at the top of the shutters, so I don't think it's simply a piece of panelling that looks like shutters. Possibly the window shutters are actually the doors to an Ellacombe apparatus. I'm not aware that the church had one, but it wouldn't seem especially surprising. Another possibility is that the door behind the treble is actually a ringers' toilet or urinal. These were not uncommon, and would normally be found in the corner of a ringing room. But that's a guess too. Does anyone have any further information on this? RAS On Thu 12/03/2026 12:46, Neal Dodge via Bell-historians wrote: > > Attached is a picture of the drawing in the Edinburgh cathedral ringing > room. The plan third from the bottom on the right is the relevant one, > but limited frame details. > > Many Thanks > Neal Dodge > > On Thu, 12 Mar 2026, 09:10 Michael A Williams, > wrote: > > There are tower plans as a set of blueprints, produced by G&J and > dating from 1933, in the ASCY Library. I've not studied them in any > great detail but I can look at them when I am next there to see if > they may be of interest. > > Michael > (ASCY Librarian) > > On Thu, 12 Mar 2026 at 06:57, Chris Pickford via Bell-historians > historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk>> wrote: > > The tuning books are at Croydon Library/Archives, along with > just a few other records (nothing very useful, to be honest). > These were in the custody of a successor company ? Cope Allman ? > until Alan Buswell persuaded them to deposit them at Croydon. > Alan has done sterling work with these records for many decades > now ? and has a database with all the main details (weights, > diameters, tuning figures etc).____ > > __ __ > > The order books and quite a lot of other clockmaking records ? > job files, photographs ? are with the current G&J clockmaking > firms. There is limited access by arrangement. I have used them > from time to time, but not for quite a while. ____ > > __ __ > > I doubt, though, if the surviving records represent much more > than (say) 5% of what once existed ? and the great bulk of a > once great company archive has almost certainly been lost____ > > __ __ > > As I recall there?s a large scale drawing of Bow tower in the > ringing room at Edinburgh Cathedral with an inset drawing > showing the plan of the frame.____ > > __ __ > > */Chris Pickford/*____ > > __ __ > > *From:*Bell-historians bounces at lists.ringingworld.co.uk bounces at lists.ringingworld.co.uk>> *On Behalf Of *oliver Lee via > Bell-historians > *Sent:* 11 March 2026 23:14 > *To:* 'Bell Historians' historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk>> > *Cc:* oliver Lee > > *Subject:* [Bell Historians] Gillett and Johnston records____ > > __ __ > > Recently I have taken an interest in the old pre war 12 at St > Mary Le Bow and as these where mostly recast by Gillett and > Johnston in 1933 if was wondering if any of their original > records survive?, I know that their tuning books are still in > Existence but I have never heard anyone say anything else about > their other records although I can only assume that they survive > in some form or another and I think I can remember my friend Kye > leaver saying that he had seen some records in the croydon > Library that included some frame plans!. I would be very > interested if anyone else can add to this ____ > > Regards____ > > Oliver lee____ > > P/s does anyone happen to have a copy of the Old frame at Bow to > hand? I'm convinced that the modern frame is a carbon copy > replica of it!____ > > _______________________________________________ > Bell-historians mailing list > Bell-historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk> > https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ringingworld.co.uk%2Flistinfo%2Fbell-historians&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cdd4abb32865c479cb01e08de803aa4d8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C639089186543075046%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=a4qEa4zmGWoYUiD8MRxqW%2BoHQnWR6kn6R5TDCy%2F7mjw%3D&reserved=0 > > > > _______________________________________________ > Bell-historians mailing list > Bell-historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk> > https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ringingworld.co.uk%2Flistinfo%2Fbell-historians&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cdd4abb32865c479cb01e08de803aa4d8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C639089186543098416%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=scY8gXE5o7H5eifLiQ7%2BI5gC%2Be%2BK6XIVRTeh1d0yHJI%3D&reserved=0 lists.ringingworld.co.uk/listinfo/bell-historians> > > > _______________________________________________ > Bell-historians mailing list > Bell-historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk > https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ringingworld.co.uk%2Flistinfo%2Fbell-historians&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cdd4abb32865c479cb01e08de803aa4d8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C639089186543106312%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=0GOSkxdR8kSv6ELN8ztG8H3kOILgp1U3jTiM8cctc2I%3D&reserved=0 _______________________________________________ Bell-historians mailing list Bell-historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ringingworld.co.uk%2Flistinfo%2Fbell-historians&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cdd4abb32865c479cb01e08de803aa4d8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C639089186543114008%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=p7KOpXzIhbq1yQlqQ12qTjpCDsZOl76U2lsslvN7yMU%3D&reserved=0 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From richard at ex-parrot.com Thu Mar 12 13:40:12 2026 From: richard at ex-parrot.com (Richard Smith) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2026 13:40:12 +0000 Subject: [Bell Historians] Gillett and Johnston records In-Reply-To: References: <07b401dcb1ed$60471930$20d54b90$@gmail.com>

Message-ID: On Thu 12/03/2026 13:34, oliver Lee via Bell-historians wrote: > I think it?s more then possible that the door behind 8 and 9 might ?have > been an access into the back of the clock, Ah yes, that makes a lot of sense. I agree that does seem the most likely explanation. RAS From mikechester at hotmail.com Thu Mar 12 13:44:54 2026 From: mikechester at hotmail.com (Mike Chester) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2026 13:44:54 +0000 Subject: [Bell Historians] Gillett and Johnston records In-Reply-To: References: <07b401dcb1ed$60471930$20d54b90$@gmail.com>

Message-ID: There was an ellacombe at St Mary le Bow. See photo 11 here https://www.stmarylebow.org.uk/bells/ There are no signs of there being any doors to the chiming apparatus Mike ________________________________ From: Bell-historians on behalf of Richard Smith via Bell-historians Sent: 12 March 2026 13:40 To: bell-historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk Cc: Richard Smith Subject: Re: [Bell Historians] Gillett and Johnston records On Thu 12/03/2026 13:34, oliver Lee via Bell-historians wrote: > I think it?s more then possible that the door behind 8 and 9 might have > been an access into the back of the clock, Ah yes, that makes a lot of sense. I agree that does seem the most likely explanation. RAS _______________________________________________ Bell-historians mailing list Bell-historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk https://lists.ringingworld.co.uk/listinfo/bell-historians -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From richard at ex-parrot.com Thu Mar 12 13:57:58 2026 From: richard at ex-parrot.com (Richard Smith) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2026 13:57:58 +0000 Subject: [Bell Historians] Gillett and Johnston records In-Reply-To: References: <07b401dcb1ed$60471930$20d54b90$@gmail.com>

Message-ID: <6d9788a8-7e65-4aad-9be0-a0cd28b43a5c@ex-parrot.com> On Thu 12/03/2026 13:44, Mike Chester via Bell-historians wrote: > There was an ellacombe at St Mary le Bow. > > See photo 11 here > > https://www.stmarylebow.org.uk/bells/ > > There are no signs of there being any doors to the chiming apparatus Thanks, and it's not in the middle of the wall either. I think by elimination we must be looking at bells 4 to 7 or 5 to 8. Clearly they're not the back bells (and the peal boards are not the ones visible in the picture in RW 1996/1294), we can't see shutters between 8 and 9 (which I now agree is likely to the clock), and we can't see the south-facing window. RAS From lmj.greter at gmail.com Thu Mar 12 14:10:52 2026 From: lmj.greter at gmail.com (Liane G) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2026 11:10:52 -0300 Subject: [Bell Historians] Ship's bell - which ship? 1936-1952 In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: Good day from across the pond! As a Dutch navy officer, coming from a line of army officers, I was given custodian of a RN ship's bell that was in my grandfather's (Johan Jacob Greter) possession. He was a WWII veteran, who was able to escape his captivity by jumping of a train, making his way through the southern passage to Spain, and came to England with a British submarine. He then (1944) became a liaison in the RAF. Now my question has not to do with him, but with that particular ship's bell. I don't know where or how he obtained it, and I am very curious about its origins. My father told me it must be from the submarine P323 , HMS Terrapin. But I find it hard to believe they would have a bell like that, and they would not write 323 on it without the P. I know there was a destroyer with that number, but that would also be not very credible, I find. Maybe it would be a bell from a smaller vessel, or an installation number? It is a heavy bell, 9.5 inch diameter, King George VI Tudor crown, and the number 323. Attached are some pictures. I took it with me on my move from The Netherlands to Canada in 2013. I hope that one of you, bell-historians, knows the answer. And if it might be of any interest to one of you, I would consider arranging a sale and transfer to your side of the pond... My warmest regards, Liane Greter Cell 1 506 212 4646 [image: PXL_20260305_163140195.jpg] [image: PXL_20260305_163555363.jpg][image: PXL_20260305_163610523.jpg][image: PXL_20260305_163646008.jpg][image: PXL_20260305_163131612.jpg] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PXL_20260305_163140195.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2923682 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PXL_20260305_163610523.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2697299 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PXL_20260305_163555363.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2950323 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PXL_20260305_163131612.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2939243 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PXL_20260305_163646008.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2848970 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mikechester at hotmail.com Thu Mar 12 14:28:32 2026 From: mikechester at hotmail.com (Mike Chester) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2026 14:28:32 +0000 Subject: [Bell Historians] Ship's bell - which ship? 1936-1952 In-Reply-To: References:

Message-ID: Submarines were kitted out with a bell, but these were usually removed before they went on patrol in wartime to avoid the possibility of them giving away the position of the submarine I have found this photo https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=1207325404754945&set=a.454641900023303 I suggests that Royal Navy bells were named, rather than simply numbered, and were cast with canons, not a tang like this one. Mike ________________________________ From: Bell-historians on behalf of Liane G via Bell-historians Sent: 12 March 2026 14:10 To: bell-historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk Cc: Liane G Subject: [Bell Historians] Ship's bell - which ship? 1936-1952 Good day from across the pond! As a Dutch navy officer, coming from a line of army officers, I was given custodian of a RN ship's bell that was in my grandfather's (Johan Jacob Greter) possession. He was a WWII veteran, who was able to escape his captivity by jumping of a train, making his way through the southern passage to Spain, and came to England with a British submarine. He then (1944) became a liaison in the RAF. Now my question has not to do with him, but with that particular ship's bell. I don't know where or how he obtained it, and I am very curious about its origins. My father told me it must be from the submarine P323 , HMS Terrapin. But I find it hard to believe they would have a bell like that, and they would not write 323 on it without the P. I know there was a destroyer with that number, but that would also be not very credible, I find. Maybe it would be a bell from a smaller vessel, or an installation number? It is a heavy bell, 9.5 inch diameter, King George VI Tudor crown, and the number 323. Attached are some pictures. I took it with me on my move from The Netherlands to Canada in 2013. I hope that one of you, bell-historians, knows the answer. And if it might be of any interest to one of you, I would consider arranging a sale and transfer to your side of the pond... My warmest regards, Liane Greter Cell 1 506 212 4646 [PXL_20260305_163140195.jpg] [PXL_20260305_163555363.jpg][PXL_20260305_163610523.jpg][PXL_20260305_163646008.jpg][PXL_20260305_163131612.jpg] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PXL_20260305_163140195.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2923682 bytes Desc: PXL_20260305_163140195.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PXL_20260305_163610523.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2697299 bytes Desc: PXL_20260305_163610523.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PXL_20260305_163555363.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2950323 bytes Desc: PXL_20260305_163555363.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PXL_20260305_163131612.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2939243 bytes Desc: PXL_20260305_163131612.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PXL_20260305_163646008.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 2848970 bytes Desc: PXL_20260305_163646008.jpg URL: