[Bell Historians] Number of ringers

[Richard Johnston]

My response interlined below.

> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 02 May 2026 10:17:33 +0100
> From: John Harrison <john at jaharrison.me.uk>
> To: bell-historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk
> Subject: Re: [Bell Historians] Number of ringers
> Message-ID: <5cd298dfefjohn at jaharrison.me.uk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> 
> In article <69F47101.12604.A58DF725 at johnstonrh.rhj.org.uk>,
>    Richard Johnston via Bell-historians
> <bell-historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> > > That might also explain why Exeter was ahead of Oxford and Bath &
> > > Wells, whereas now it is a long way behind them.
> 
> > John's concluding paragraph isn't soundly based.
> 
> I don't see how that follows from the facts that Richard set out. 
> Regardless of the membership dynamics of the GDR and/or DA, if the source
> of Coleridge's numbers included lots of people that we would not count as
> ringers then it would be inflated, which *might* explain the apparent
> excess in Exeter Diocese.

Clearly, including people who chime, rather than ring, is going to be an issue in the 1930 returns 
for all dioceses.  I don't see any special reason for assuming *this* issue applies more in Exeter 
diocese than elsewhere.

> 
> > the total number of ringers can't be even approximately represented
> > from GDR figures.
> 
> Clearly so, but I don't see how that is relevant if the figure came from
> the Diocese and not from the GDR.

John's original comparison was between Exeter and Oxford & Bath & Wells.  My core point is that 
that the Guild of Devonshire Ringers memberships don't represent a good estimate of the numbers of 
ringers either in 1930 nor now.  Those other Guilds' figures did and do.

The 1930 diocese figures from everywhere make a better comparator if you want to compare Devon with 
elsewhere than using Guild figures.  That's the point.  There are no comparable figures for 2026 
available that can compare Devon with elsewhere.

===============

*Today* for towers with 5+ bells, tenor >2cwt (no minirings etc)

Exeter 371
Bath & Wells 340
Oxford 361

Devon is ahead in tower numbers, and may have been relatively rather more so in 1930, as I suspect 
there may have been fewer augmentations/ newly installed rings in empty towers since 1930 in Devon, 
where bell density was high because most villages by then already had 5+ bells in their towers.  
Bell pride had long been a big thing here.

> 
> Is Richard claiming that Exeter Diocese really did have more ringers (in
> the sense we mean it) than Oxford Diocese in 1930?

Yes.  I think that is entirely possible, indeed more than probable, provided "we" mean people 
ringing full-circle, rather than more specifically method ringers (for which the answer is a 
definite no.).  

Unlike the comparator dioceses, the majority of ringers in Devon were not method ringers but either 
rounds or call change ringers.  It was pretty routine before 1930 (and afterwards) for many youths 
in Devon villages (where there was little in the way of competing diversions) to be taught to ring, 
a process that was quick taking no more than a few months at most. (I have had testimony about 
this, and even of just how remarkably fast a boy could reach Devon competition winner standard.)  
Hence villages had all these people who could ring if needed.  

In more recent times, though, many towers neglected to bring on new ringers, when boys became more 
interested in the other activities now more easily available to them.  Many once very active bands 
have collapsed.

But it is still noticeable in Devon that towers that are less ambitious, in terms of only wanting 
to ring rounds and call changes tend to manage to train and retain (at least part time) more people 
(to their required standards) than method towers.

Method ringers take longer to learn, and the process needs far more committment.  So Guilds that 
emphasised methods would be expected, other things being equal, to have fewer ringers per tower, in 
response to a survey about the number of ringers.

Richard Johnston