[r-t] Extents of doubles
richard at ex-parrot.com
Fri Aug 4 12:14:27 UTC 2006
Philip Earis wrote:
> Here are some words you don't often hear: Barry Peachey has written an
> article in this week's RW with some interesting bits in it. Amongst the
> usual bluster, misplaced grandiosity and misguided sentiments he talks a bit
> about Crambo doubles, which was apparently 'first published in Fabian
> Stedman's Campanalogia in 1677'.
Crambo is one of only eleven doubles extents (up to
rotation, reflection, etc.) with the following properties:
- the extent forms a perfect five part (i.e. it is a
- no more than four consecutive blows in any one place;
- uses only single changes.
All eleven are totally asymmetric and seemingly devoid of
Using only 17th century technology (i.e. not using a
computer), how easy would it be to find one of these? At a
guess, not very easy; in fact, I find it astonishing that
Stedman managed to find such an extent (though as it
definitely is in Campanophile, he, or one of his
contemporaries, must have).
> Crambo is a doubles principle with 24 changes per lead; ie the plain course
> generates the extent. There is no RW reference next to it on the Methods
> Committee website (http://www.methods.org.uk/online/prin5.htm#76),
> suggesting that it hasn't been rung in recent years.
Well, until August 2004, it wasn't listed at all.
> The noation for Crambo is:
> = 45123 (you can even call it cyclic!)
> As Barry points out, it would be a serious challenge to ring Crambo. It
> puzzles me a bit that many ringers assume you have to go to higher numbers
> of bells for complexity:
I think the assumption is more that you have to go to higher
numbers for *interesting* complexity. And once you've
introduced the subjectivity of what is or isn't interesting,
it's hard to dispute that ;-)
But just looking at the variety and complexity of
compositions of spliced minor available, it's hard to
dispute that minor offers plenty in the way of complexity.
> There are other interesting methods on the same webpage, from the familiar
> Orpheus, to Mermaid (220.127.116.11.18.104.22.168.22.214.171.124.126.96.36.199.188.8.131.52.184.108.40.206),
> which has some beautiful symmetry.
OK. What am I missing? Mermaid doesn't have any symmetry,
> Can anyone generate an exhaustive list of all 24 change-per-lead doubles
> principles whose plain course generates the extent?
It ought to be feasible.
> Or at least estimate a lower bound for the number that
An interesting question. Without generating an exhaustive
list, can anyone see how to find a good lower bound (or,
indeed, a good upper bound) on the number?
Clearly there are F(5)-1 = 7 changes available, where F(n)
is the Fibonacci series, F(0)=F(1)=1, F(n)=F(n-1)+F(n-2).
Equally clearly, we cannot have the same change twice in
succession as this is immediately false, meaning that
everything other than the first change is limited to a
choice of 6. Finally, we can exclude rotations, which, as
a perfect 5n part is impossible unless n=1, is as simple as
dividing by 24. This gives an upper bound of 7.6^23/24, or
about 2.3 x 10^17.
But what about a lower bound? Now I'm stuck. I have
absolutely no idea how to do this beyond counting those that
I know about.
> It sounds like the kind of thing RAS might have done before, but I can't
> find the relevant email if he has!
No, not yet, though I'll look into it.
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