[r-t] Proportion of Surprise Methods

Robin Woolley robin at robinw.org.uk
Thu Mar 26 10:41:31 UTC 2009

Let us consider the situation before RAS's twin-hunt TD method was posted.

We could quite conclusively say that the half-lead and lead-end were not
considered to be Cross-sections. This has been shown to be empirically true
since, if it were not, there would be no nths place Surprise Methods nor
2nds place Treble Bob methods - with a similar argument for the half-lead.
The consequence of this for Bristol has already been mentioned.

It is also defined to be the case in the 1906 document (available at
methods.org.uk). They talk about Minor methods, as was the usual start point
in those days, and the text uses the word 'both'. Now 'both' means two (and
only two) so this Report clearly intends that a cross-section is when the
treble is passing in 2-3 and 4-5, i.e., internal to the lead. By the way, it
uses the word 'passing' and I shall return to this later.

Now, I ask the question 'Could the half-lead and lead end be regarded as
cross sections?' If you prefer, 'Is it reasonable ....' Well, yes it is. At
the half-lead, the treble is changing from 7-8 up to 7-8 down, but at this
point, can it be said to be passing? Passing implies physical movements, and
it's making a place. However, this point could be argued.

Turning back to the current pair of rotations, it's going to be a value
judgment in the end, as to whether the first method is Surprise or Delight.
It all comes down to the question as to whether a 'cross-section' can be
allowed to occur at a lead end. If the answer is 'no', then the final
question seems to come down to which is rung first - if the first rotation
is rung first and a cross section cannot occur at a lead end, then it is


Having written the above, I started doing some more thinking. What do we
mean by a 'Principal Hunt'? According to Decision (E)C1, both hunt bells in
Grandsire might be seen to be 'Principal Hunts'. However, if we go back into
history - and the farthest I can go back with my own resources is 1978 -
(E)C remarks in its preamble that '[the] principal hunt [is] generally
unaffected by calls'. The second in Grandsire is quite clearly not a
Principal, but a Secondary Hunt. So the question must then be posed: "Is the
2nd (in RAS's 1st rotation) affected by the calls?" If it is, then the
interpretation of (E)C1 is that the 2nd is not a Principal Hunt, so an
internal place not being made above it at its cross-section does not prevent
the method being Surprise. Seconds place bell would be, I would surmise,
*generally* affected by calls.

Best wishes

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