# [r-t] Does a rotation by any other name smell as sweet?

Matthew Frye matthew at frye.org.uk
Sun Oct 19 23:29:51 UTC 2014

```On 19 Oct 2014, at 21:21, Don Morrison <dfm at ringing.org> wrote:

> On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Don Morrison <dfm at ringing.org> wrote:
>> Here are two, unnamed differential major methods. From a practical
>> ringer's perspective are they the same method, or different methods?
>>
>> http://ringing.org/blueline1.png
>>
>> http://ringing.org/blueline2.png
>
> I believe the only three people to have replied to this have replied
> that they view them as the same. You learn something new every day:
> this unanimity surprises me.
>
> I guess I'm an outlier here, but I would find them different in
> practice. To me dodging back and hand feels radically different than
> hand and back. And while I've rung few differential methods I would
> find a completely different set of cycles to move between at calls a
> radically different feel. And as a conductor, I would certainly find
> that having to use a completely different composition* would make it
> feel a radically different method to me.

Well, thinking they'll feel different is not the same as thinking they are different methods. I still believe I would think of them as being the same method and I would make myself aware of the effects ringing a different rotation would have. I'm sure ringing Stedman at the wrong stroke will feel different but it's unequivocally the same method. Sure, the conducting and calls will feel different between the two, but A) you asked about the methods not their calls/compositions (and I don't want to define methods by their calls) and B) I'm sure nice simple peals of a S Major method will feel quite different from a complex cyclic composition of the very same method; I'm sure 4ths place bobs in Glasgow feel different from 6ths place bobs. So, while I'm sure your two methods will indeed feel somewhat different I don't think feel is a good indicator or criterion for methods being different (Havant/Cambridge supports "feel" not being a good differentiator).

If you try on a pair of gloves then turn them inside out I'm sure they'll feel different but they're still the same pair of gloves; to tell that you just might need to keep your eyes open and look instead of blindly thrusting your hands at whatever you can feel.

MF

```