Terminology

Sun Nov 16 11:10:09 GMT 2003

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There are 8 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. Re: Terminology
From: "Susan Dalton" <dalton.family at v...>
2. Bromham book
From: "Dennis Powney" <dennis.powney at l...>
3. CCC, DACs, etc.
From: "Susan Dalton" <dalton.family at v...>
4. Ebay bell
From: "David & Mary Kelly" <bells at k...>
5. RE: Ebay bell
From: "john.ketteringham" <john.ketteringham at n...>
6. Lea and Utley bell
From: "John David" <johnedavid at h...>
7. Re: Ebay bell
From: "jimhedgcock" <jameshedgcock at h...>
8. Re: Ebay bell
From: Carl S Zimmerman <csz_stl at s...>

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Message: 1
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 21:57:12 +0000
From: "Susan Dalton" <dalton.family at v...>
Subject: Re: Terminology

>> > As I wrote, metal rods were fitted to strengthen the wheels, but
> I suppose
>> > these are called tie-bars.
>>
>> Why not 'wheel braces'?
>>
>> Steve

Quite. C D
>
> I thought that tie-bars are threaded metal bars used to strengthen
> wooden frames by being added vertically from the top of the frame,
> through the foundation beams and then bolted tight. Am I even more
> confused than usual?
>
These are tie RODS not bars. C D
>
>

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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 12:25:42 -0000
From: "Dennis Powney" <dennis.powney at l...>
Subject: Bromham book

For Neil Skelton. Thanks for your cheque, please send me your current
postal address; that I may send the book.
dennis.powney at l...

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Message: 3
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 12:50:49 +0000
From: "Susan Dalton" <dalton.family at v...>
Subject: CCC, DACs, etc.

I have read all the contributions about the recent CCC seminar and allied
matters with interest and a certain amount of amusement. I might add that I
wasn't invited to the seminar and couldn't have gone even if I had been;
but our excellent Hereford DAC Bells Consultant was able to go and did.

Can we be clear on one thing? Bells (and other) Consultants to DACs are
appointed by the DAC in question itself, and not by the Bishop or anybody
else. The recent article in RW over Paula Griffiths's signature (but I
suspect not actually written by her) got this and certain other things
wrong. Paula is doing her best, I am sure, but she hasn't been at CCC very
long (unsurprisingly, perhaps, she was previously at EH). Incidentally,
with DACs it is the Diocesan Bishop who appoints the chairman; the Bishop's
Council appoints the other members. Well, that's what happens in Erryferd,
anyway...

May I defend the CCC Lists of Bells (and Bellframes) for Preservation? They
are a "labour of love" on the part of George Dawson who took over from the
late Ranald Clouston. If compiled carefully (as I have every reason to
believe they are), they are surely helpful to DACs, parishes, the trade and
everybody else for guidance (I emphasise the word 'guidance'). And I
absolutely agree that in Graeme Knowles the CCC has a first-rate chairman,
combining a quick and ready wit with great perspicacity and fairness.

Appointment of members of the CCC Bells and Clocks Committee, as with DACs,
is of course done very largely on what one used to call the Old Boy Network.
I am not trying to defend this to Martin Fellows and others, but it is hard
to see how, realistically, it could be done otherwise. Personally I believe
that the CCC committee has some excellent people on it. It needs bearing in
mind that while some people just love being on committees, not everybody
cares for them or for serving on them. My main quibble, as with so many
other organisations, is when chairmen stay on for too long and when they or
other members are members of too many other committees, to the extent that
they sometimes forget which hat they are supposed to be wearing. This is
perhaps an especial problem with bells-related organisations because there
is only a relatively small pool of people who are interested in any aspect
of what goes on above the end of the bellrope. But I am delighted to see it
getting steadily bigger.

Which brings me to the suggestion that there should be a formal body devoted
to bell history, perhaps based on subscribers to this List, and no doubt
with a constitution, agenda, meetings, minutes, annual subscriptions, a
non-CCCBR-Library- run journal (!) and all the other usual paraphernalia.
Do we really want this, rather than trying to work constructively with all
the organisations which already exist? I honestly don't know; but I would
observe that there are some distinguished bell historians who do not (so far
as I am aware) belong to this list - John Scott, George Massey and Paul
Cattermole to name but three.

C D

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Message: 4
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 18:22:19 -0000
From: "David & Mary Kelly" <bells at k...>
Subject: Ebay bell

I am pleased to let you know that agreement has been reached for the Keltek
Trust to acquire the bell. I confirm that it was cast in 1903 by Taylor's.
The seller bought it from a dealer who thought it might have come from
Lincoln. I have looked at John Ketteringham'e excellant book Lincolnshire
Bells & Bellfounders but have not found any likely places in Lincoln where
it could have come from.

Subject to confirmation of our tonal analysis results undertaken by
telephone, the best match for the bell is at Beckbury, Shropshire and
provisional agreement has been reached with the parish that they can acquire
it if confirmed suitable. It had been considered for St Francis, Clifton,
Nottingham but Ben Kipling of Hayward Mills advised that it is too large.
Incidently this will be the second bell the Trust has acquired through Ebay;
the first bell is also going to Beckbury!

Also advertised on Ebay in the USA are two Taylor bells.
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2572374608&category=1207

We were offered these a few months ago but declined to pay the asking price
of $1500.

I am copying this email to Geoff Pick as it is through his efforts that the
Trust has been kept up to date with bells appearing on Ebay. Many thanks
Geoff.
Dave Kelly
Secretary

Keltek Trust - www.keltek.org
Email: bells at k...

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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 19:43:31 -0000
From: "john.ketteringham" <john.ketteringham at n...>
Subject: RE: Ebay bell

I have made a complete search through LBBF and can confirm that if the date
is correct it doesn't come from LL

>From John R. Ketteringham MBE, PhD of Lincoln in Lovely Lincolnshire,
England

web site : http://homepage.ntlworld.com/john.ketteringham/

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Message: 6
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 20:18:23 +0000
From: "John David" <johnedavid at h...>
Subject: Lea and Utley bell

Sark Church has a ship's bell inscribed

CAPETAN CHIOTIS

It has on top a partially illegible founder's name

.....BY LTD
RAINHILL

This is Utley Bros of Rainhill, Lancs, who cast maritime brassware at least
till 1970. and are still going as
Utley PLC. They are stillcasting bells to the same design as used on the
Titanic - I am not sure if this should be a recommendation

John David

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Message: 7
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 21:30:11 -0000
From: "jimhedgcock" <jameshedgcock at h...>
Subject: Re: Ebay bell

I came across a Meneely bell(1890s) on e.bay on Thursday, but have
been unable to find it since then. Judging from the price offered
for it, Keltek might be better off selling their bells by this route
and buying new ones!---

In bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com, "David & Mary Kelly" <bells at k...>
wrote:
> I am pleased to let you know that agreement has been reached for
the Keltek Trust to acquire the bell. I confirm that it was cast in
1903 by Taylor's. The seller bought it from a dealer who thought it
might have come from Lincoln. I have looked at John Ketteringham'e
excellant book Lincolnshire Bells & Bellfounders but have not found
any likely places in Lincoln where it could have come from.
>
> Subject to confirmation of our tonal analysis results undertaken by
telephone, the best match for the bell is at Beckbury, Shropshire and
provisional agreement has been reached with the parish that they can
acquire it if confirmed suitable. It had been considered for St
Francis, Clifton, Nottingham but Ben Kipling of Hayward Mills advised
that it is too large. Incidently this will be the second bell the
Trust has acquired through Ebay; the first bell is also going to
Beckbury!
>
> Also advertised on Ebay in the USA are two Taylor bells.
> http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&item=2572374608&category=1207
>
> We were offered these a few months ago but declined to pay the
asking price of $1500.
>
> I am copying this email to Geoff Pick as it is through his efforts
that the Trust has been kept up to date with bells appearing on Ebay.
Many thanks Geoff.
> Dave Kelly
> Secretary
>
> Keltek Trust - www.keltek.org
> Email: bells at k...
>
>
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.538 / Virus Database: 333 - Release Date: 10-Nov-03

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Message: 8
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 00:16:10 -0600
From: Carl S Zimmerman <csz_stl at s...>
Subject: Re: Ebay bell

At 21:30 +0000 on 2003/11/15, Jim Hedgcock wrote:

>I came across a Meneely bell(1890s) on e.bay on Thursday, but have
>been unable to find it since then. Judging from the price offered
>for it, Keltek might be better off selling their bells by this route
>and buying new ones!---

It's still there (but not for long--only about 17 hours left) at
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2571263525&category=37908

Eight bids so far, and the price is up to US$4000, which I think is a
bit high for a 28" bell, regardless of which Meneely foundry it came
from.

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