Retunes

Mon Nov 24 11:38:07 GMT 2008

I'm not sure if Ruth actually asked for a refund, but my usual comment when asked that sort of question is that it would have taken extra time to remove that amount of metal so it cancels itself out.

The way in which a set of bells is re-tuned - given a free hand which rarely happens these days - is down to what the bell tuner thinks he is able or wants to achieve. Some of my illustrious predecessors (particularly the eponymous ones) were not keen on the idea of improving bells so much by tuning them that they sounded significantly better, but were more apt to get them to sound the same as before but the right note. 

I take into account a variety of factors such as scale of thickness and the likely improvement in tone in deciding how to retune a set of bells, so the approach is rarely the same for any two peals of bells. It is difficult to communicate how I think a peal will end up and convince the customer; I have a shrewd idea, but if asked, I can't say "Trust me, my boy, I'm the Bellfounder" any more - it needs to be rationalised better than that. Not easy when the people I'm dealing with are not necessarily musically inclined.

Does this help?

Andrew Higson

Taylors Eayre and Smith Ltd

The Bellfoundry

Freehold Street

Loughborough

LE11 1AR

Telephone: 01509 212241 Fax: 01509 263305 Registered in England No. 1352309

________________________________

From: bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com [mailto:bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Bull
Sent: 24 November 2008 11:18
To: bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Bell Historians] Ludlow

Ah, that would be Geoff Stickland then!!!! I only looked up the tuning figures because Ruth (Stickland) kept going on about how much weight the bells had lost in tuning - did she really ask for a refund for the "lost" metal? She seemed satisfied when I explained to her what had been done.

I never rang at Quedgeley before the retuning, but have rung on them very regularly since moving to Dursley in 1994 (my wife and I have known the Sticklands for many years, and they are godparents to our younger son). I think the bells are quite pleasant tonally, and a good example of how old bells can be retuned to near true-harmonic standards without losing their "character".

I have the figures "as received" in 1993, and they were definitely old-style. I would be very interested to know how the bellfoundries decide how to approach retuning of old bells. For example, Berkeley in Gloucestershire were retuned by Taylors in 1978, but all that was done was to adjust the nominals slightly - the partials were not altered. Certainly these bells could have done with some Quedgeley-style treatment (and perhaps the four trebles recasting!). What criteria govern how much tuning can be done?

Andrew Bull

Andrew Higson <andrew.higson at kl7aPsFZHnGPx72LdvV4Fo8i-EKygAYwAYtSHMQwW-UaLvboGTCgMMoUvTtdBy7Bn2qFoZH_Aeihl7sXxpiEQfd4-j9v1VQ.yahoo.invalid> wrote:

	The latter.

	Andrew Higson

	Taylors Eayre and Smith Ltd

	The Bellfoundry

	Freehold Street

	Loughborough

	LE11 1AR

	Telephone: 01509 212241 Fax: 01509 263305 Registered in England No. 1352309

________________________________

	From: bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com [mailto:bellhistorians at 487ZhpDqjzmJzMcTZvdv-xG6-ikUUDG1Sdi4lNq7dYASQ5f55vjyQdvi7FSZiaAh_12OS2qED8_n-yfJpynld-kZjRWlRsHD.yahoo.invalidm] On Behalf Of Andrew Bull
	Sent: 24 November 2008 10:52
	To: bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com
	Subject: RE: [Bell Historians] Ludlow

	Was this the retuning at Ludlow, or the retuning at Quedgeley?

	Andrew Bull

	Andrew Higson <andrew.higson at kl7aPsFZHnGPx72LdvV4Fo8i-EKygAYwAYtSHMQwW-UaLvboGTCgMMoUvTtdBy7Bn2qFoZH_Aeihl7sXxpiEQfd4-j9v1VQ.yahoo.invalid> wrote:

		They weren't overly sharp before I started. The incumbent was very grumpy about what I had done until the organist observed how pleasant and musical the bells were after the retune.

		Andrew Higson

		Taylors Eayre and Smith Ltd

		The Bellfoundry

		Freehold Street

		Loughborough

		LE11 1AR

		Telephone: 01509 212241 Fax: 01509 263305 Registered in England No. 1352309

________________________________

		From: bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com [mailto:bellhistorians at 8qk59_0JgrSfleR6h2D9oZKvUAdgo3W9hHT-JeW0lE2VOKJIK3PdFBopLwpdOUkURm6Cgr8jTwt97Zn6vtj712vNWtRGtQ.yahoo.invalidom] On Behalf Of Richard Offen
		Sent: 23 November 2008 21:40
		To: bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com
		Subject: RE: [Bell Historians] Ludlow

		Did they really manage to get octave hum notes out of the Rudhall bells at Quedgley?

		R

________________________________

		From: bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com [mailto:bellhistorians at 8qk59_0JgrSfleR6h2D9oZKvUAdgo3W9hHT-JeW0lE2VOKJIK3PdFBopLwpdOUkURm6Cgr8jTwt97Zn6vtj712vNWtRGtQ.yahoo.invalidom] On Behalf Of Andrew Bull
		Sent: Monday, 24 November 2008 12:55 AM
		To: bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com
		Subject: RE: [Bell Historians] Ludlow

		I imagine that the present 5th and treble will have to be recast, as they would need to be sharpened by a semitone to make 9th and 4th of ten with the present 7th as tenor. Presumably the others would be retuned as well, though I believe they were in fact retuned in 1988 (as well as 1890). It would be interesting to know who is doing the job, and whether the new bells will be old-style or true-harmonic. Quedgeley, in Gloucester, also largely Rudhall 1732, were retuned in 1993 and converted into a true-harmonic ring, which the exception of the 1850 Taylor sixth, which obviously caused the tuned some problems.

		Andrew Bull

________________________________

		From: bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com [mailto:bellhistorians at 8qk59_0JgrSfleR6h2D9oZKvUAdgo3W9hHT-JeW0lE2VOKJIK3PdFBopLwpdOUkURm6Cgr8jTwt97Zn6vtj712vNWtRGtQ.yahoo.invalidom] On Behalf Of Richard Offen
		Sent: 23 November 2008 15:42
		To: bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com
		Subject: RE: [Bell Historians] Ludlow

		I hope they are going to be tuned, the present 6th is horribly flat (almost a ¼ semitone)!

		R

________________________________

		From: bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com [mailto:bellhistorians at 8qk59_0JgrSfleR6h2D9oZKvUAdgo3W9hHT-JeW0lE2VOKJIK3PdFBopLwpdOUkURm6Cgr8jTwt97Zn6vtj712vNWtRGtQ.yahoo.invalidom] On Behalf Of Andrew Watkins
		Sent: Sunday, 23 November 2008 11:46 PM
		To: bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com
		Subject: RE: [Bell Historians] Ludlow

		Ludlow are going to be made into a 10, with the present 7th as the tenor. The bells are coming out on the 3rd December. Sorry I can't tell you much more at present.

		Andrew Watkins

			========================================
			Message Received: Nov 23 2008, 12:58 PM
			From: "Richard Offen" 
			To: bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com
			Cc: 
			Subject: RE: [Bell Historians] Ludlow

			I guess they are either going up to ten or twelve, as has been planned for
			the last five years or so - they have two of the Gillett bells from the old
			ring at Kidderminster in store.

			R

			-----Original Message-----
			From: bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com <mailto:bellhistorians%40yahoogroups.com>  [mailto:bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com <mailto:bellhistorians%40yahoogroups.com> ]
			On Behalf Of David Bryaant
			Sent: Sunday, 23 November 2008 9:41 PM
			To: bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com <mailto:bellhistorians%40yahoogroups.com> 
			Subject: [Bell Historians] Ludlow

			What's happening at Ludlow, then?

			http://www.campanophile.co.uk/show.aspx?Code=74540 <http://www.campanophile.co.uk/show.aspx?Code=74540> 
			<http://www.campanophile.co.uk/show.aspx?Code=74540 <http://www.campanophile.co.uk/show.aspx?Code=74540> > 

			Is the augmentation to 12+2# proposed a few years ago now going ahead?

			David

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