[Bell Historians] Great Malvern

Bickerton, Roderic (SELEX GALILEO, UK) Roderic.Bickerton at VFn_8DaLWOrta3ukS5vqDSHpQuB2UBidT4eXdLHE7kYuMk3WKgF4KiEmvDqhLyZql3UKEztywAnGeQufGE23ZhKsii0nPs5YLPxjBCw.yahoo.invalid
Tue Mar 10 08:34:54 GMT 2009

As a cardinal issue is involved, and the decisions are at a high level, and the precedence set is critical, is this an issue the CCCBR should get involved in?


From: bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com [mailto:bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of George Dawson
Sent: 10 March 2009 08:26
To: bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Bell Historians] Great Malvern

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It was the Chancellor who made the decision, it is he who needs ‘educating’. Letters to him!!


Perhaps this is the case where we, as ringers, should make a real stand and find (goodness knows from where!) the funds to help the parish fight this case at the Court of Arches.   If we don't EH will continue to run amok with any bell restoration project that is put forward which their 'experts' consider to be detrimental to trhe retention of historic material.


On Tue Mar 10 6:37 , 'John H Allen' sent:

	I share David’s anger but as I have already pointed out the Faculty application was supported by all the C Of E bodes. It is the Bishop’s Legal Officer, the Chancellor who has come to the opposite view. The decision needs to be challenged in the Court of the Arches but whether the parish has the stomach or the funds to do this is another matter. The PCC approved in January 2002 so it has taken 7 years to get this far.


	I also notice that one of the experts who is quoted in the judgement is an elected member of the CC’s Towers and Belfries Committee.








	From: bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com [mailto:bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Bryant
	Sent: 09 March 2009 22:15
	To: Bell Historians
	Subject: Re: [Bell Historians] Great Malvern


	"Nowhere do I see a proper case made for keeping the frame."
	Quite. Some of the supposed justification is completely ludicrous, e.g:
	"It is however of historic interest ... locally for its place in the 
	evolution of the fittings of the medieval church building and of 
	bell-ringing activity at the Priory"
	What complete nonsense! If this were a valid justification it could be used 
	as a reason for keeping absolutely anything - and the danger is that this is 
	exactly what will happen if it's accepted as valid in this case.
	Things are only likely to get worse, and part of the problem is that there 
	is no recognized group of bell historians to act as an opposition party, and 
	the way the CofE carries on doesn't help situations like this. Granted, the 
	CCC didn't agree with EH on this occasion, but neither, it seems, did they 
	actively fight it - which they should have. The CCC has a policy on 
	conservation which strikes a good balance between the needs of ringers and 
	the requirements of conservationists, and it is in nobody's interest if EH 
	is allowed to go to ridiculous lengths without challenge
	And here we come back to the problem of the CCC Bells committee. Any chance 
	of it becoming democratic and people being appointed on merit with a clear 
	and transparent appointments procedure? Or is it just going to continue to 
	operate on the basis of the CCC appointing whoever they decide? At the last 
	round of appointments, I had never heard of the three people appointed, they 
	had (so far as I know) no background in Bell history, they are not members 
	of this list, none of them (so far as I know) came to the conference at 
	Worcester Cathedral and I have heard nothing about them since. Are they 
	doing a good job? I've no idea given that they are not part of the general 
	bell historian community. It was interesting that when I asked about the 
	appointments procedure at the Worcester conference, the CCC representative 
	didn't really answer the question.
	If things are to improve I think we really need a recognized society of bell 
	historians which is accepted as an expert witness in cases like this, or 
	alternatively a new (and transparent) setup at the CCC (which needs to be 
	accepted by EH as the principal expert body), but the chances of the latter 
	happening don't seem very high. Ideally someone, or better still a group, 
	would take the CofE on over the issue and at one time I might have had a 
	go - but not now. After a long-running dispute with the Diocese of York over 
	something else, I have nothing but contempt for the CofE and it has become 
	very clear that they don't consider that any of their actions should be 
	subject to scrutiny or question - it's still very much a Victorian 
	organization which thinks that people should just accept that the CofE is 
	always right, and always in the right. It's an attitude which doesn't bode 
	well for any attempts to reform the way it does things.
	I wonder whether it's worth members of this list emailing EH and the Diocese 
	of Worcester to express views on the matter? As bell historians, we might be 
	expected by the uninvolved to side with EH, but rather suspect that nearly 
	all members of this list will think that the decision made is the wrong one.

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