[Bell Historians] Re: Telegraph letter

Wed Oct 14 15:14:25 BST 2009

Various bell people have claimed to have built or used Harrison's  
bells, yet in reality they usually seem to confuse their Harrisons.

On 14 Oct 2009, at 15:00, Richard Offen wrote:

>
> Why should a peal be tuned in this manner in preference to any other  
> system?   What advantage does this give?
>
>
>
> I am not aware that Harrison’s bells are stunningly better than  
> anything else from the same period.
>
>
>
> From: bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com [mailto:bellhistorians at OQ5wMIjmWtPBMAI7pMVK2YG8x1Nr5F1tgqurlY6Rj3qEKINcpjRPW9ENTDybEt5qYCy-j8uUoWjIepePwRxCOqiLHI4O3DI.yahoo.invalidom 
> ] On Behalf Of Charles Lucy
> Sent: Wednesday, 14 October 2009 6:58 PM
> To: bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Bell Historians] Re: Telegraph letter
>
>
>
>
>
> Yes.
>
>
>
> The peal should be tuned as John Harrison described using the  
> meantone-type tuning derived from pi, which he advocated.
>
>
>
> Harrison also wrote about the methods of manufacturing bells, and  
> provided his radical numbers figures, which are yet to be understood.
>
>
>
> see:
>
>
>
> http://www.lucytune.com/academic/manuscript_search.html
>
>
>
> Any further insights would be appreciated;-)
>
>
>
>
>
> and this page for the frequencies, intervals and tuning details:
>
>
>
> http://www.lucytune.com/new_to_lt/pitch_02.html
>
>
>
>
>
> On 13 Oct 2009, at 20:57, matthewhigby at aM-eIMPsXc--Gi-SGnRHVIbWO5NyR1MACVqxqXmSvyE1rf9g2r1ZJTfJ5lYo6tY-UDFUGUZUC80Ihg.yahoo.invalid wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Could Mr Lucy explain to this list, exactly how a bell/peal of bells  
> should be tuned? As far as I can tell, he appears to have very  
> different ideas to most of us!
>
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
>
>
> Matthew Higby
>
> www.bell-hangers.com
>
> Indeed the instruments should be in tune. But what is "in tune"????
>
>
>
> It seems that some individuals on this list took exception to our  
> bidding to take over Taylors and intervened with the administrators  
> who failed to provide us with the bid information despite my having  
> signed a confidentiality agreement, to which I conformed.
>
>
>
> It looks to me as though your spoilers may well have shot themselves  
> in their feet.
>
>
>
> It seems to me that the way in which the bell business/industry was  
> run and maintained requires entirely new business, engineering and  
> tuning models:
>
>
>
> a) The business model to provide capital investment, even out the  
> cash flows and overcome the "feast and famine" patterns.
>
> The new model also needs to force the presently destructively  
> competing vested interests to coincide.
>
>
>
> b) The engineering "improvements" to need make productive use of  
> "21st century" engineering, technological, techniques and solutions.
>
>
>
> c) The tuning model has to acknowledge that bells are "out of tune"  
> individually, and particularly in their tuning relationship to other  
> members of their "often celebrated" peals.
>
>
>
> Whoever eventually acquire the Taylor assets will need to seriously  
> rethink the whole bells industry, if the "heritage" is to continue  
> for future generations to enjoy.
>
>
>
> I shall continue to take opportunities to influence the tuning of  
> bells, yet it may be by less obvious and public means. Time will tell.
>
>
>
> In the meantime, we shall continue to change the rest of the world's  
> musical tuning by working with musicians, and other parts of the  
> music industry.
>
>
>
> I am confident that eventually those tuning the bells (at least  
> those that remain) will understand and use our findings.
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Charles Lucy <lucy at BdRtK_Rd7ZbROmUjsWpn-08e0qMME5JUZfVrtnMMW7sdafaBowNV-Out9YusNVWBZMx0V13mCTE.yahoo.invalid>
> To: bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tue, Oct 13, 2009 8:50 pm
> Subject: Re: [Bell Historians] Re: Telegraph letter
>
>
>
> Indeed the instruments should be in tune. But what is "in tune"????
>
>
>
> It seems that some individuals on this list took exception to our  
> bidding to take over Taylors and intervened with the administrators  
> who failed to provide us with the bid information despite my having  
> signed a confidentiality agreement, to which I conformed.
>
>
>
> It looks to me as though your spoilers may well have shot themselves  
> in their feet.
>
>
>
> It seems to me that the way in which the bell business/industry was  
> run and maintained requires entirely new business, engineering and  
> tuning models:
>
>
>
> a) The business model to provide capital investment, even out the  
> cash flows and overcome the "feast and famine" patterns.
>
> The new model also needs to force the presently destructively  
> competing vested interests to coincide.
>
>
>
> b) The engineering "improvements" to need make productive use of  
> "21st century" engineering, technological, techniques and solutions.
>
>
>
> c) The tuning model has to acknowledge that bells are "out of tune"  
> individually, and particularly in their tuning relationship to other  
> members of their "often celebrated" peals.
>
>
>
> Whoever eventually acquire the Taylor assets will need to seriously  
> rethink the whole bells industry, if the "heritage" is to continue  
> for future generations to enjoy.
>
>
>
> I shall continue to take opportunities to influence the tuning of  
> bells, yet it may be by less obvious and public means. Time will tell.
>
>
>
> In the meantime, we shall continue to change the rest of the world's  
> musical tuning by working with musicians, and other parts of the  
> music industry.
>
>
>
> I am confident that eventually those tuning the bells (at least  
> those that remain) will understand and use our findings.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 13 Oct 2009, at 19:55, nigelsdtaylor wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Yes indeed! I am only too aware of the increasing difficulty in  
> obtaining permission to replace bells, frames, and to tune old  
> bells. Parishes aspirations are generally listened to by the  
> conservationist bodies, but often ignored. Sometimes, there is no  
> semblance of a compromise, and the ringers are left with what they  
> consider as an unsatisfactory installation.
> The code of practice states that a ring of bells is a musical  
> instrument and should sound in tune. However, there have been many  
> occasions during the last few years when this statement has been  
> completely ignored.
> Faculties can take months, and sometimes years to obtain; this leads  
> invarably to greater expense for a parish, and difficulties for  
> those of us in the trade to operate with any real degree of  
> efficiency. We are businesses, that like any other business must try  
> to trade profitably, and this has become increasingly difficult to  
> achieve.
>
> Nigel Taylor
>
>
>
> Charles Lucy
>
> lucy at l ucytune.com
>
>
>
> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>
>
>
> for information on LucyTuning go to:
>
> http://www.lucytune.com
>
>
>
> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
>
> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Charles Lucy
>
> lucy at qE2PJXZx60SkLxjpbg-d-FbmIWEzOkmTLhJMVv7VRbkHefjMX6NUfhHRSa0BtaMiohOodAjNWtD5.yahoo.invalid
>
>
>
> - Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -
>
>
>
> for information on LucyTuning go to:
>
> http://www.lucytune.com
>
>
>
> For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
>
> http://www.lullabies.co.uk
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
> 

Charles Lucy
lucy at qE2PJXZx60SkLxjpbg-d-FbmIWEzOkmTLhJMVv7VRbkHefjMX6NUfhHRSa0BtaMiohOodAjNWtD5.yahoo.invalid

- Promoting global harmony through LucyTuning -

for information on LucyTuning go to:
http://www.lucytune.com

For LucyTuned Lullabies go to:
http://www.lullabies.co.uk

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