[Bell Historians] Kemberton

Sun May 15 14:17:40 BST 2022

You might find this of interest Andrew:

https://www.wam.hr/sadrzaj/us/Cavanagh_440Hz.pdf

cid:image001.png at 01D40F8F.50BED290

From: Bell-historians [mailto:bell-historians-bounces at lists.ringingworld.co.uk] On Behalf Of Andrew Wilby
Sent: Sunday, 15 May 2022 8:42 PM
To: Bell Historians Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Bell Historians] Kemberton

Are we overlooking the fact that A440 has only been the International standard since 1953?

Before that we used a variety including A435, the French A432 etc. That is why York etc were described as B flat. It was the pitch of the time. 

Nobody that I have come across can explain why A440 was settled on?

 A432 has a greater resonance with music as it divides by 8 and seems to occur naturally vv organ pipes of 8ft, 16ft, 32 and 64ft etc. Is there a rationale here?

Perhaps someone might delve into the history of pitch as related to bells.? Also to remember that not all rings are equal tempered and that might affect the designation of an individual bell.

I'm not defending Kemberton A# by the way. I shall enquire!

AWRW

On Sun, 15 May 2022, 12:18 Richard Offen, <richard.offen at iinet.net.au> wrote:

PS. I quite understand it will be a gargantuan task to go through the whole database to effect such changes and can certainly see why that is not a priority.

Arguments over note names aside, I still think the on-line Dove is a wonderful facility and thank all those who work so hard to keep it up to date.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bell-historians [mailto:bell-historians-bounces at lists.ringingworld.co.uk] On Behalf Of Richard Offen
Sent: Sunday, 15 May 2022 5:14 PM
To: 'Bell Historians Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [Bell Historians] Kemberton

It may not be high on the priority list, but surely new additions, such as Kemberton, which are so obviously in B-flat could have some common musical sense applied to them!

R

-----Original Message-----
From: Bell-historians [mailto:bell-historians-bounces at lists.ringingworld.co.uk] On Behalf Of Dickon Love
Sent: Sunday, 15 May 2022 5:09 PM
To: 'Bell Historians Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [Bell Historians] Kemberton

My good friend RCO has asked this question before, and the answer is the same.

The description of the key of a ring remains a work in progress because ultimately it boils down to individual preference, and we have seen a diversity of preferences already in this thread. The same argument goes for preferences in (historic) counties and lieutenancy areas. In BellBoard, the user can set a preference, and in due course we hope we can do the same for Dove with respect to key signatures.

This will not only apply to which side of the divide the key note is (the tenor), but also whether the key note should be used in defining the scale in the first place, or even some other average applied over all the notes of the scale, not just the tenor. This latter calculation would itself be dependent on which temperament you want to apply the calculations to.

At the moment it is not particularly high on the list of priorities when we are still embedding in details of frames, hence there hasn't been a review of all sets of bells. So if A# offends you, please know that Bb is not considered incorrect, or indeed A or B if the tenor is particularly flat or sharp.

DrL

-----Original Message-----
From: Bell-historians <bell-historians-bounces at lists.ringingworld.co.uk> On Behalf Of Richard Offen
Sent: 14 May 2022 08:25
To: bell-historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk
Subject: [Bell Historians] Kemberton

Could I ask why the new ring of six for Kemberton, Shropshire (soon to be eight) are being shown on the online Dove website as being in the key of A#?

If I remember my music theory correctly, A# Major is not in the circle of fifths as it’s structure, with three double sharps, is considered too complicated for practical use. 

The tenor at Kemberton, according to the nominal frequency given on the Dove page is 11 cents flat of B-flat, so why not show the ring in that commonly used key? To add insult to injury, one of the bells is shown as being in E-flat, which makes even more of a nonsense of it all!

Rings of bells are musical instruments and therefore, in my opinion, should conform to the tried and tested conventions of musical notation. 

Richard

Sent from Richard Offen's iPad

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