[Bell Historians] Kemberton

Sun May 15 16:26:13 BST 2022

Thanks Richard. I have a copy of that somewhere in the files. I've had it
mind to read back through the Loughborough records to try to unearth the
Taylor thinking as it clearly evolved since the 1890s but have never found
the time, one day!
At what point they moved from 435 to 440 I don't know but it does of course
represent a problem of uniformity for Dove.
With equal temprement we have lost that sense of colour that came from
different keys and the modern obsession is with numbers and the look of the
bell - not the sound.
At one time there would have been an aural difference between A# and Bb but
not now sadly.
Andrew

On Sun, 15 May 2022, 16:18 Richard Offen, <richard.offen at iinet.net.au>
wrote:

> You might find this of interest Andrew:
>
>
>
> https://www.wam.hr/sadrzaj/us/Cavanagh_440Hz.pdf
>
>
>
>
>
> [image: cid:image001.png at 01D40F8F.50BED290]
>
>
>
> *From:* Bell-historians [mailto:
> bell-historians-bounces at lists.ringingworld.co.uk] *On Behalf Of *Andrew
> Wilby
> *Sent:* Sunday, 15 May 2022 8:42 PM
> *To:* Bell Historians Mailing List
> *Subject:* Re: [Bell Historians] Kemberton
>
>
>
> Are we overlooking the fact that A440 has only been the International
> standard since 1953?
>
> Before that we used a variety including A435, the French A432 etc. That is
> why York etc were described as B flat. It was the pitch of the time.
>
> Nobody that I have come across can explain why A440 was settled on?
>
>  A432 has a greater resonance with music as it divides by 8 and seems to
> occur naturally vv organ pipes of 8ft, 16ft, 32 and 64ft etc. Is there a
> rationale here?
>
> Perhaps someone might delve into the history of pitch as related to
> bells.? Also to remember that not all rings are equal tempered and that
> might affect the designation of an individual bell.
>
> I'm not defending Kemberton A# by the way. I shall enquire!
>
> AWRW
>
>
>
> On Sun, 15 May 2022, 12:18 Richard Offen, <richard.offen at iinet.net.au>
> wrote:
>
> PS. I quite understand it will be a gargantuan task to go through the
> whole database to effect such changes and can certainly see why that is not
> a priority.
>
> Arguments over note names aside, I still think the on-line Dove is a
> wonderful facility and thank all those who work so hard to keep it up to
> date.
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bell-historians [mailto:
> bell-historians-bounces at lists.ringingworld.co.uk] On Behalf Of Richard
> Offen
> Sent: Sunday, 15 May 2022 5:14 PM
> To: 'Bell Historians Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [Bell Historians] Kemberton
>
> It may not be high on the priority list, but surely new additions, such as
> Kemberton, which are so obviously in B-flat could have some common musical
> sense applied to them!
>
> R
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bell-historians [mailto:
> bell-historians-bounces at lists.ringingworld.co.uk] On Behalf Of Dickon Love
> Sent: Sunday, 15 May 2022 5:09 PM
> To: 'Bell Historians Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [Bell Historians] Kemberton
>
> My good friend RCO has asked this question before, and the answer is the
> same.
>
> The description of the key of a ring remains a work in progress because
> ultimately it boils down to individual preference, and we have seen a
> diversity of preferences already in this thread. The same argument goes for
> preferences in (historic) counties and lieutenancy areas. In BellBoard, the
> user can set a preference, and in due course we hope we can do the same for
> Dove with respect to key signatures.
>
> This will not only apply to which side of the divide the key note is (the
> tenor), but also whether the key note should be used in defining the scale
> in the first place, or even some other average applied over all the notes
> of the scale, not just the tenor. This latter calculation would itself be
> dependent on which temperament you want to apply the calculations to.
>
> At the moment it is not particularly high on the list of priorities when
> we are still embedding in details of frames, hence there hasn't been a
> review of all sets of bells. So if A# offends you, please know that Bb is
> not considered incorrect, or indeed A or B if the tenor is particularly
> flat or sharp.
>
> DrL
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bell-historians <bell-historians-bounces at lists.ringingworld.co.uk>
> On Behalf Of Richard Offen
> Sent: 14 May 2022 08:25
> To: bell-historians at lists.ringingworld.co.uk
> Subject: [Bell Historians] Kemberton
>
> Could I ask why the new ring of six for Kemberton, Shropshire (soon to be
> eight) are being shown on the online Dove website as being in the key of A#?
>
> If I remember my music theory correctly, A# Major is not in the circle of
> fifths as it’s structure, with three double sharps, is considered too
> complicated for practical use.
>
> The tenor at Kemberton, according to the nominal frequency given on the
> Dove page is 11 cents flat of B-flat, so why not show the ring in that
> commonly used key? To add insult to injury, one of the bells is shown as
> being in E-flat, which makes even more of a nonsense of it all!
>
> Rings of bells are musical instruments and therefore, in my opinion,
> should conform to the tried and tested conventions of musical notation.
>
> Richard
>
> Sent from Richard Offen's iPad
>
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