[r-t] New Grandsire [was Old methods]

Don Morrison dfm at ringing.org
Fri Jul 18 01:47:34 UTC 2008

On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 6:26 PM, Mark Davies <mark at snowtiger.net> wrote:
> What's this New Grandsire then - is it really just Grandsire rotated? If so
> then it sounds like a load of nonsense; lots of Stedman is rung starting at
> different changes and we still call it Stedman. No-one tries to splice
> Stedman started at the normal place with Stedman started at, say, the 2nd
> change of a slow six. Probably we should be able to do that, of course. (Yes
> yes don't tell me it's false across the method change).

Stedman is a principle, so starting it at a different point doesn't
make much difference.

Starting methods with hunt bells in different places generally means
you have a different hunt bell. To most ringers I think this would
feel like a more radical change. In the case of Grandsire v. New
Grandsire this change of hunt bells means the treble becomes the
"other" hunt bell.

I'm pretty sure most ringers would find ringing the method that has
thirds after the lead end (Grandsire) would feel in practice like a
different method than ringing the one that has thirds before the lead
end (New Grandsire). And the calls are going to feel different, too.

If New Grandsire were rung with the usual Grandsire calls, but so
arranged that the 3 was the permanent hunt bell, with early thirds as
the 3 comes to lead and thirds always made as the "other" hunt bell
takes the 3 off lead, then, yes, it would feel like just the same
method as Grandsire. But in New Grandsire the choice of primary versus
secondary hunt bell (not in the sense that "secondary hunt" is used in
the Decisons, just in the sense of the bell that is temporarily "in
the hunt" in Grandsire) has change significantly.

Don Morrison <dfm at ringing.org>
"Humans need fantasy to be human. To be the place where the falling
angel meets the rising ape."         -- Terry Pratchett, _Hogfather_

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