[r-t] ?CCBR meeting - Methcom proposals

[Richard Smith]

Tim Barnes wrote:

> I also like the concept of tightening up the classes to only cover their
> normal use.  But the below would still allow some oddities, such as the 6th
> being the hunt bell -- was that intended?

Yes.  I think we've agreed that a rotation of a method is 
not a distinct method.  It therefore follows that a method 
starting from the conventional half-lead should have the 
same class as one starting from the lead-end.  For example, 
we want &-8-8-2,6, which has the sixth in the hunt, to be a 
plain method.

However I think this is the only case allowed in the rules I 
suggested because of the requirement that "in Plain, Treble 
Dodging, Treble Place or Alliance methods, the primary hunt 
bell must lead during the lead."  This doesn't allow a 
method where the 6th hunts from 3rds to 6ths.

> * Little and Differential only apply to classified methods.
>
> Little makes sense, but did you intend this for differential?  The latter
> seems a useful classification for true differentials (i.e. not short
> course) even if the method doesn't further classify into Plain, Treble
> Dodging, etc.

I don't want there to be a requirement for unclassified 
methods to include Little or Differential in their name. 
Why are five of the six (or six of the seven) quark 
methods be Differential, or the majority of link methods 
used in cyclic maximus?  It's just not a useful property 
when learning them.  Admitedly the quark methods will all 
cease to be Differential under the short course rule, but it 
still applies to the majority of link methods.  Does anyone 
care that Slinky is a (2,2,7) Differential?

To be honest, even with the tightening of Differential 
proposed the in the rt-rules document, I still think it's 
too broad.  When Differentials were legalised in 1999, the 
groups of working bells were required to be coprime in size 
(although the word coprime was not used).  It was then 
generalised to anything with multiple groups of working 
bells.  We're now thinking of requiring the groups to be of 
different sizes.  I'd go further, perhaps reverting to its 
original meaning.

> So pasting and amending the language of the subgroup document, I think your
> proposal would result in the following.  (I've used "1st's Place" as the
> doc doesn't currently define Leading.)
>
> *Plain Method:* A Hunt Method or Differential Hunt Method in which:
> 1. The Path of the Hunt Bell is the same if it is rung backwards; and
> 2. The Hunt Bell rings exactly two times in each Place during a Plain Lead

No.  You've forgotten the requirement that there be a place 
made in 1st's place; this could be simplified to say that:

3. The Hunt Bell must ring in 1st's Place during a Plain
    Lead.

I know you've added that to the definition of Little, but 
that's the wrong place.  Adding it to Little means that 
Double Bishopstoke becomes a non-Little Surprise method, 
rather than unclassified.

> *Treble Dodging Method:* A Hunt Method or Differential Hunt Method in which:
> 1. The Path of the Hunt Bell is the same if it is rung backwards;
> 2. The Hunt Bell rings exactly four times in each Place during a Plain
> Lead; and
> 3. The Hunt Bell Makes a Place exactly twice within a Plain Lead

Again, you're missing the requirement that the hunt bell 
must lead:

3. The Hunt Bell Makes a Place exactly twice within a Plain
    Lead, one of which is in 1st's Place.


> *Treble Place Method:* A Hunt Method or Differential Hunt Method in which:
> 1. The Path of the Hunt Bell is the same if it is rung backwards;
> 2. The Hunt Bell rings the same number of times in each Place during a
> Plain Lead; and
> 3. The Hunt Bell Makes a Place more than twice within a Plain Lead, exactly
> one of which is in 1st's Place

3 isn't what I said.  I said exactly one of the places at 
the symmetry points must be 1sts.  The point was to preclude 
methods where the hunt bell rings a couple of leads of plain 
hunt, like Sliky.  However I think this is better expressed 
in a more transparent manner,

3. The Hunt Bell Makes a Place more than twice within a
    Plain Lead, at least one of which is in 1st's Place.

4. The Path of the Hunt Bell during a Plain Lead shall not
    consist of a shorter Path repeated one or more times.

(The wording of 4 could be improved.)

This would allow Reverse Percy's Tea Strainer to be a Treble 
Place, which seems reasonable.


[Updated version of Alliance:]

> *Alliance Method:* A Hunt Method or Differential Hunt Method in which:
> 1. The Path of the Hunt Bell is the same if it is rung backwards;
> 2. The Hunt Bell rings either twice or four times in each Place within 
> a Plain Lead; and
> 3. The Hunt Bell Makes a Place exactly twice within a Plain Lead

As you said, your first definition allowed "big dodges" 
which I meant to excluded, but this still allows things 
besides dodging and hunting, e.g. 123454454321.  Assuming we 
wish to avoid defining dodging and hunting, I think we can 
deal with this by saying:

3.  The Hunt Bell Makes a Place exactly twice within a Plain 
Lead, one of which is in 1st's Place, and one of which is in 
the highest-numbered Place in which the Hunt Bell rings.

(Again, the wording could be improved.)


> *Little Method:* A Plain, Treble Dodging, Treble Place or Alliance Method
> in which:
> 1. The Path of the Hunt Bell is restricted to fewer Places than the Stage
> of the Method; and
> 2. The Hunt Bell Makes a Place exactly once in 1st's Place

As above, 2 can be dropped as it needs including in the 
individual class definitions.

RAS