[r-t] Pitman's 13440 change compositions

[Roddy Horton]

P.S. Metheringham is N not M. Sorry !

-----Original Message-----
From: ringing-theory [mailto:ringing-theory-bounces at bellringers.org] On Behalf Of Roddy Horton
Sent: 09 August 2017 09:14
To: ringing-theory at bellringers.org
Subject: Re: [r-t] Pitman's 13440 change compositions

I am looking at No 1 now but a few years ago I was playing about with 13440s and came up with these

13440 Spliced Surprise Major (7 methods) R R Horton Produced in 2004
 23456    M  W  H   Methods
------------------------------
 54632    -  -      R/CPWBN/L
 36245    -  -      R/CPWBN/L
 42563    -  -      R/CPWBN/L
 65324    -  -      R/CPWBN/L
 23645       -  s   RCPWBN/L/
 46532    -  -      R/CPWBN/L
 35264    -  -      R/CPWBN/L
 63254       -      RCPWBN/L
 52436    -  -      R/CPWBN/L
 36452    -  -  s   R/CPWBN/L/
 54263    -  -      R/CPWBN/L
 62345    -  -      R/CPWBN/L
 43526    -  -      R/CPWBN/L
 25634    -  -      R/CPWBN/L
 32654       -      RCPWBN/L
 56423    -  -      R/CPWBN/L
 24365    -  -      R/CPWBN/L
 63542    -  -      R/CPWBN/L
 45236    -  -      R/CPWBN/L
 34256       -      RCPWBN/L
------------------------------
3 part. s=123456. 419 com, 54 cru's.
1920 each Byron, Chandlers Ford, London, Nettleham, Pudsey, Rutland, Wimbledon. 

13440 Spliced Surprise Major (7 methods) R R Horton Produced in 2004
 23456    M  W  H   Methods
------------------------------
 54632    -  -      R/CPWBN/L
 36245    -  -      R/CPWBN/L
 42563    -  -      R/CPWBN/L
 65324    -  -      R/CPWBN/L
 23645       -  s   RCPWBN/L/
 46532    -  -      R/CPWBN/L
 35264    -  -      R/CPWBN/L
 63254       -      RCPWBN/L
 52436    -  -      R/CPWBN/L
 36452    -  -  s   R/CPWBN/L/
 54263    -  -      R/CPWBN/L
 62345    -  -      R/CPWBN/L
 43526    -  -      R/CPWBN/L
 25634    -  -      R/CPWBN/L
 32654       -      RCPWBN/L
 56423    -  -      R/CPWBN/L
 24365    -  -      R/CPWBN/L
 63542    -  -      R/CPWBN/L
 45236    -  -      R/CPWBN/L
 34256       -      RCPWBN/L
------------------------------
3 part. s=123456. 419 com, 144 cru's.
1920 each Whalley(B), Willingdale(C), Rushmoor(L), Metheringham(M), Boston Manor(P), Vauxhall(R), Prestbury(W). 


Roddy

-----Original Message-----
From: ringing-theory [mailto:ringing-theory-bounces at bellringers.org] On Behalf Of Roddy Horton
Sent: 09 August 2017 09:03
To: ringing-theory at bellringers.org
Subject: Re: [r-t] Pitman's 13440 change compositions

They are both on page 287 of the RW for 1961 and I cannot think why I did not include No 1. There is a correction to No 2 on page 339 of that year.

Roddy

-----Original Message-----
From: ringing-theory [mailto:ringing-theory-bounces at bellringers.org] On Behalf Of Philip Earis
Sent: 09 August 2017 08:32
To: ringing-theory at bellringers.org
Subject: [r-t] Pitman's 13440 change compositions

Following a recent conversation with Ian Fielding, I'm now very interested to learn more about Albert Pitman's tenors-together extent compositions of spliced major (13440 changes, ie 8!/3).

Pitman's impressively detailed wikipedia page
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_J_Pitman) says:

"His major achievement in 1961 was the publication of two compositions, numbers 1 and 2 of 13440 Spliced Surprise Major in six methods"

A search on Pealbase suggests there hasn't been a long length of 13440 rung since its records start  (in 1950), so I presume Pitman's compositions remain unrung?

Moreover, I can't seem to find either of these compositions on either www.ringing.org/peals/ or complib.org (another example of how ringing can be well-served with excellent resources but oddly some seminal compositions are hard to find).

After a bit of a search, I've found one of the compositions on Roddy Horton's website (www.rrhorton.net):

===
13440 Spliced Surprise Major (6 Methods) Albert J Pitman 1961 p287
 23456    M  W  H   Methods
-----------------------------------
 43526       2  -   RWMEMW/BW/R/
 54326          -   LEMWR/
 35426          -   RWMEL/
 36524    2     -   R/WB/WMEL/
 45623    -     -   R/WMEL/
 62453       -  -   LEMW/R/
 46253          -   RWMEL/
 24653       3  -   RWMEMW/BW/BW/R/
 64523       2  -   RWMEMW/BW/R/
 56423          -   RWMEL/
 52364    2  -  -   R/WB/WMEMW/R/
 35264          -   RWMEL/
 23564       3  -   RWMEMW/BW/BW/R/
 53624       2  -   RWMEMW/BW/R/
 46325    -     -   R/WMEL/
 24365       -      LEMW/R
 34625       2  -   RWMEMW/BW/R/
 63425          -   RWMEMWR/
 65324    2     -   R/WB/WMEL/
 42356    -  -  -   R/WMEMW/R/
-----------------------------------
3 part.
3840 Watford, 2784 Wembley(M), Rutland,
1920 Ealing, 1056 Belgrave, Belvedere(L).
381 com, 144 cru's.
===

So my questions now are:

1) Can anyone send the other of the two compositions?

2) Are both compositions definitely unrung? Were they ever attempted?

3) Has there ever been a tenors-together extent of major rung?

4) Can someone provide a simple explanation as to how these Pitman compositions fit together?  Has anything been written in the RW on these?

5) How much scope is there to use the same plan but with a different selection of methods?







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