[r-t] Practical Extension

Andrew Johnson andrew_johnson at uk.ibm.com
Mon Jul 30 18:31:20 UTC 2018

```> From: Robin Woolley
> Hi All,
>
> St Nicholas Bob Triples appears on p52 of this year's diary.
>
> Can any of you give two reasons why it should not have this name, and
> one reason why it can?
>
> Best wishes
> Robin
St Nicholas Doubles
http://www.ringing.org/method/?notation=345.1.5.3.5%2C125&stage=5

So one extension:
St Nicholas Bob Triples
http://www.ringing.org/method/?notation=347.1.7.3.7.3.7%2C127&stage=7
Keep the 34 places, and extend the external place 5 to the back
1.5. => looks like external places for plain hunt, so extend to 1.7

3.5. => keep the 3, extend the external place to 7

then insert a section
3.7

However this does not maintain PB lead-end order - but perhaps the
PB order in doubles was an accident, as the 34 places swap over
two bells at the lead-end, but happens to give another PB order
in doubles.

So to fix, also swap over bells in 56:
Holy Trinity Bob Triples
http://www.ringing.org/method/?notation=34567.1.7.3.7.3.7%2C127&stage=7
which maintains PB LE order, though this adds extra places in a change
which could do odd things to parity etc. If we had 'place ringing'
not 'change ringing' then we might consider extensions which via
swapping pairs rather than places.

Adding all the internal places gives the reverse PB order compared to
having none, though this is not an extension of St Nicholas Doubles.
St Simon's Bob Triples
http://www.ringing.org/method/?notation=7.1.7.3.7.3.7%2C127&stage=7

Inserting the section 3.7 is another area of consideration - is the
3 in the 3.5 considered as a place fixed from the front or a place
adjacent to the treble, which in the inserted section should be
maintained by inserting
5.7 ?
St Merwenna Bob Triples
http://www.ringing.org/method/?notation=347.1.7.3.7.5.7%2C127&stage=7

Perhaps we could extend St Nicholas Doubles by inserting a bit more
plain hunt, at the expense of push the 3.5 => 3.7 section further
along, maintaining that section next to the half-lead, but losing
the place being adjacent to the treble.
http://www.ringing.org/method/?notation=347.1.7.1.7.3.7%2C127&stage=7

Taking that, and fixing the 3.5 => 3.7 to instead be 3.5 => 5.7 gives
http://www.ringing.org/method/?notation=347.1.7.1.7.5.7%2C127&stage=7
which is differential with a 2 lead plain course. (Not nice.)

So a reason for St Nicholas Bob Triples not deserving that
name is non PB LE order, but the parent does.
Another possibly is the 3 place extending to a non-adjacent place,
but the original 3 place is maintained.

You also have St Nicholas Bob Minimus
http://www.ringing.org/method/?notation=3.1-3%2C2&stage=4
- perhaps this should extend to Doubles via adding a hunt, giving
Spondon Bob Doubles:
http://www.ringing.org/method/?notation=3.145.5.1.5.3.5.1.5.145&stage=5

and to minor from the minimus - I'm not clear how to do this.
The second 3 as a half-lead change shouldn't be part of the general
extension, and really should be maintained as penultimate and next
to the treble.
The first 3 is what distinguishes St Nicholas Minimus from
Double Bob Minimus, so perhaps we should look at Double Bob Minor
with 36 or 34 or 3456 as the first change.

http://www.ringing.org/method/?notation=36.1-1-3%2C2&stage=6
http://www.ringing.org/method/?notation=34.1-1-3%2C2&stage=6
http://www.ringing.org/method/?notation=3456.1-1-3%2C2&stage=6

You can then insert an extra treble in these methods to
extend them to triples.

The PB LE order problem seems to be caused by a non-PB LE
order contracting to a PB LE order.

As expected there are lots of ways of extending, though I think
having fewer rather than many ways is preferable, at the expense
of some methods not extending.

"The methods upon five may be prickt upon seven, observing but
the true difference of proportion of changes; that is doubles
on five bells must be triples upon seven; doubles and singles
upon five must be triples and doubles upon seven, &c."

"The methods of all peals upon six bells may be prickt upon
eight, observing but proportion in the changes, according to
the difference in the number of bells, viz. Triples and doubles
upon six must be quadruples and triples upon eight. Doubles
upon six must be triples upon eight, &c."

but also a very different way of extending:
"All methods upon six bells wherein half the changes are triples,
will go upon eight according to the method before prickt, but
after this manner."

--
Andrew Johnson

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