[Bell Historians] 16th and 17th century tuning

[David Cawley]

Are you quite sure they were tuned in 1952? They were certainly not weighed, not that this proves anything, and were of course rehung, having spent much of the war at Cleeve Abbey, in Somerset.

DLC

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Richard Offen 
  To: bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 2:52 PM
  Subject: RE: [Bell Historians] 16th and 17th century tuning



  Not much help I’m afraid as they were tuned by Whitechapel in the 1950s.



  R




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  From: bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com [mailto:bellhistorians at BYTPcIeKbKkEvObh1WaLS0Jh8AVQDNwTWHSe0X05jv0plXkwyqJraheavBd3s9ruUHeDRMjh44hIi-mtwuKVYdnwqg.yahoo.invalidom] On Behalf Of Bickerton, Roderic (SELEX GALILEO, UK)
  Sent: Monday, 11 August 2008 6:18 PM
  To: bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com
  Subject: RE: [Bell Historians] 16th and 17th century tuning



  What evidence is there from complete rings:

        Smithfield London, Gr Lon
        S Bartholomew Gt
       
        Bell
       Weight
       Nominal
       Note
       Diameter
       Cast
       Founder
       Canons
       
        1
       2cwt
       
       F#
       22.00 "
       c1510†
       Thomas Bullisdon
       Y
       
        2
       2¾cwt
       
       E
       24.00 "
       c1510†
       Thomas Bullisdon
       Y
       
        3
       3½cwt
       
       D#
       26.50 "
       c1510†
       Thomas Bullisdon
       Y
       
        4
       4¼cwt
       
       C#
       29.00 "
       c1510†
       Thomas Bullisdon
       Y
       
        5
       5½cwt
       
       B
       31.00 "
       c1510†
       Thomas Bullisdon
       Y
       




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  From: bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com [mailto:bellhistorians at BYTPcIeKbKkEvObh1WaLS0Jh8AVQDNwTWHSe0X05jv0plXkwyqJraheavBd3s9ruUHeDRMjh44hIi-mtwuKVYdnwqg.yahoo.invalidom] On Behalf Of Richard Smith
  Sent: 11 August 2008 11:04
  To: bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com
  Subject: RE: [Bell Historians] 16th and 17th century tuning

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  Richard Offen wrote:

  > > Is anyone aware of any research into how the tuning of rings
  > > of bells evolved during the 16th and 17th centuries?
  >
  > "http://www.hibberts.co.uk/index.htm"
  > "http://www.kirnberger.fsnet.co.uk/"

  Interesting though both of these are, I'm not sure either 
  really touch on what I'm interested on. Or perhaps they do, 
  and I haven't managed to locate the relevant parts, in which 
  case a pointer would be appreciated.

  The only passage I can find that is slightly relevant to the 
  introduction of a major scale in rings of bells is the 
  following paragraph on Nigel Taylor's site:

  | Until the 17th century, few churches had more than four 
  | bells. These rarely formed a scale; this was of little 
  | consequence as each bell was used for a specific purpose, 
  | such as the curfew, sanctus, or tolling for the dead. 
  | Little, if any attempt was made to tune additional bells 
  | to sound in tune with existing ones. In the mid-17th century, 
  | English change-ringing was beginning to develop, and with 
  | it the demand for greater numbers of bells in a set. For 
  | change-ringing to make any sense, clearly the bells must 
  | form a recognisable scale.

  But this doesn't seem wholly compatible with John Eisel's 
  essay 'Change Ringing: The History of an English Art, Vol 1' 
  where he says:

  | In the middle of the sixteenth century we have the results 
  | of the first surveys on the numbers of church bells. 
  | [...] The weights of the bells show that the bells would 
  | have formed a ring and this is emphasised by the returns 
  | of the Commissioners for the Hundred of Framland in 
  | Leicestershire. Three parishes each had 'iij bells of a 
  | corde', Croxton Kerrial had 'iiij bells of a ryng', and 
  | Muston had 'iiij bells of one ryng'.
  |
  | A study of the 1552 and 1553 inventories shows that most 
  | parish churches had between three and five bells, although 
  | some had fewer and a handful had more.

  I would be interested in what is known about the tuning of 
  rings from this period. Heinrich Glarean didn't publish 
  'Dodecachordon' until 1547, and this is usually credited as 
  the point when the major scale (his Ionian mode) was 
  introduced, so it would seem surprising if this was in many 
  mid-16th century rings of bells.

  Richard

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