[Bell Historians] Mancroft tenor (was unusual clock chimes)

[David Cawley]

Unfortunately a great many of my papers are presently atill unpacked following the move from Leicester to Margate. However, I have seen and copied certain of the correspondence re Mancroft tenor at Loughborough and am able to recollect what I read. The whole restoration was quite an involved case, and involved a Consistory Court (which was largely about the bell frame; Taylors were prepared to strengthen the old one if required to do so, but in the end the Chancellor allowed a new frame). So far as the tenor was concerned it was considerably lighter than its "given" weight of 43-something. JT&Co stated that ideally the bell should be recast, but settled for tuning it; not extensively but with eminently satisfactory results. When the builders have finished with my study, no doubt I would be able to produce the "documentary evidence" Andrew requires. Meanwhile there is evidence still to be seen in the bell itself.

DLC

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Andrew Bull 
  To: bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 8:16 PM
  Subject: RE: [Bell Historians] Mancroft tenor (was unusual clock chimes)


    

  I've heard it said a few times that Mancroft tenor was tuned when the bells underwent a full restoration by Taylors in 1925. I have examined the job book entry at Loughborough for the job, and on that evidence it seems that NONE of the bells were tuned. Those on the list who have examined Taylors' job books first-hand will be familiar with the format; for each job is given the weights as received, the wheel diameters, estimated weights of any new bells, weights "as dispatched", and then underneath the tuning figures, generally before and after tuning. For the Mancroft entry, the table for the tuning figures has been set out, but no figures entered in the table. Instead, underneath is written "not altered". I have always taken this phrase to indicate that no tuning was carried out on any of the bells.



  I have not checked in the tuning books for the Mancroft job, but the entry in the job book seems fairly conclusive. Does anyone have documentary evidence that the tenor WAS tuned in 1925?



  I did have a ring at Mancroft a couple of years ago, expecting to hate them, but came away rather liking them. Perhaps I was just taken in by the history of the place? But Bill Hibbert told me - in terms I am still studying! - that there are definite reasons why I may have liked them.



  Andrew Bull




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  From: bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com [mailto:bellhistorians at KGhfbWD5yBIET4jtSW8o13Q7aFtXvQSuAVjNthDO-39KnQ88MM4VAZpg_Zn_Z_iDosq8l-WqRl2JzPGVY0d8j4h9vMg.yahoo.invalidom] On Behalf Of Richard Offen
  Sent: 06 November 2009 03:58
  To: bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Bell Historians] Unusual clock chimes



    

  Although not strictly a clock chime, the very plaintive sound of Norwich Cathedral bells being chimed automatically should be a must for the recording!

  I agree with you about the front 11 at Mancroft.   Dunstan was pretty near being a 'Simpson' bell before tuning and is near perfect (even upper partials in tune) after.

  Richard



  On Fri Nov 6 5:18 , 'David Cawley' sent:

      

    At Glandford, Norfolk, there is a very good twelve-bell chime (Taylors 1900, 11-1-17 in G) complete with chiming clock and an impressive barrell which plays every three hours; there is a weekly selection of tunes. You can see it in action at the end of the John Betjeman film A Passion for Churches. A video is still advertised for sale on the Whitechapel website.



    Re Richard's email below: the clock bells, now hanging above Great Dunstan are all the more interesting as they are nos 4-8 of the "characterful" old twelve which preceded the present ring in the SW tower. On GD's place among good-sounding 18th-century bells: one has to remember that the bell is by no means as cast - indeed some 6-cwt lighter after the very successful tuning had been completed. I would put my money on the Lester & Pack front 11 at Mancroft, never tuned by anyone after being supplied to the church. When Taylors rehung them in 1925 they neither suggested nor undertook any tuning to these bells, only to the T Mears II tenor.



    DLC





             
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