[Bell Historians] Re: Carillonneur v Carillonist

[Peter Humphreys]

As Christopher Dalton commented (on another topic in this list) "This is
almost interesting".
 

-----Original Message-----
From: bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com
[mailto:bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carl S Zimmerman
Sent: 27 September 2006 20:59
To: bellhistorians at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Bell Historians] Re: Carillonneur v Carillonist



Phil Lucas wrote:
>Interesting that its our Transatlantic friends have brought this up.

Ahem. If you will review recent messages on this List, I believe 
you'll find that I simply used the word in context under a different 
subject. It was a trans-Pacific friend who converted that simple 
mention into a discussion, the scope of which somewhat bemuses me.

Phil Lucas also wrote:
>Further to the discussion would a female carilloneur/-carillonist be
>a carilloneuse/-carilloniste?

Possibly, if one prefers the French flavour of "carillonneur.-" There 
is a member of the GCNA who occasionally identifies herself (with 
tongue firmly in cheek) as a carilloneuse.

Richard Offen, who seems particularly offended by the word under 
discussion, asked:
>Taking the 'ist' ending to its logical musical conclusion, are we in
>future to refer to Ringo Starr as the former drummist with the
>Beatles?

No, that's not the logical conclusion. As pointed out in
HYPERLINK
"http://www.gcna.org/data/Glossary.html"http://www.gcna.-org/data/-Gloss
ary.-html
a drummer is one who drums. Similarly, a ringer is one who rings; 
which also answers Roderick Bickerson's complaint:
>I do not want to be a bell ringist.

No one is suggesting that you should be. Certainly I am not! I am 
simply advocating that one who plays the carillon be called a 
carillonist, just as one who plays the piano is called a pianist.

Andrew Wilby asked,
>how can you suggest that French words are not part of English?

Where did I ever suggest that? On the contrary, I've pointed out the 
French origins of words which are now part of the English language.

What I will assert, now, is that when French words come into the 
English language, they are Anglicised more often than not. Not being 
a linguist, I cannot point you to solid evidence of that assertion. 
But the words given in Andrew's example reflect it, as does the 
flautist-to--flutist change which someone else mentioned. My 
preference for "carillonist" over "carillonneur" results from a 
desire to be logically consistent in how that Anglicisation is done.

It's well known that many French people are resentful of French words 
which were derived from the English language. I find it very curious 
that some British people are eager to use French words in English but 
are at the same time resentful of the occasional Americanised word. 
(Many of us 'Murcans, a'course, will adopt any word from anywhere in 
our language, and probably mangle it in the process.)

Carl

P.S. I trust, gentle reader, that you will have noticed my careful 
attention to British spellings, in deference to the sensibilities of 
the majority of the subscribers to this List. Being American, I have 
probably not been completely successful in the regard. So jes' be 
happy with wotcha got!

P.P.S. It was the first carillonneur of Washington Cathedral, the 
late Ronald Barnes, who may have been the first advocate (and was 
certainly the foremost) of the word "carillonist"-. Many of his 
students follow his teaching.


 

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